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on this episode of skeptico

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a show about psychokinesis

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and science

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and a show about love

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i have an interview coming up in a

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minute with cherylie black you may

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remember that i mentioned her name

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during my recent interview with dr dean

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rayden we were talking about the

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connection between

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near-death experiences and psychic

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abilities and whether there was such a

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connection and we were squabbling over

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the question of whether there really is

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right and wrong and i brought up cheryl

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lee because well she's a pretty

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extraordinary person in a number of ways

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first from this

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kind of

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supernatural

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stranger things kind of way

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she can move things with her mind and

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she's one of probably only a handful of

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people in the world who've ever been

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tested in a laboratory to see whether

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this stuff is real and it's real she can

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really do it

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and the other thing that's extraordinary

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about cheerilee is she's a survivor of

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multiple near-death experiences

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and we're going to talk about how all

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that might relate to the bigger picture

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so let me start with a clip from

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stranger things

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remember the netflix series the kids and

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the little girl who was mk ultraed by

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these evil intelligence agencies in

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order to develop her psychic powers

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here's a couple of really short clips of

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her doing kind of this psychic stuff

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well

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okay so that's netflix that's hollywood

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and here's the real deal here's shirley

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black from the upcoming interview

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because your feelings if they got real

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intense

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could cause

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stranger things kind of stuff lights

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going on and off you know people feeling

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it that kind of stuff right that's what

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you're experiencing

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yeah that you know that you could scare

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people with it i mean even just spinning

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the wheel into the pinwheel i've had

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lots of people

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in my family who've seen it and said oh

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that's really creepy and they you know

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like they don't say oh that's really

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interesting and cool they look at it and

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go that's really creepy stop it

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tell the story about when you were a kid

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in school i hate that story and because

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that was just an event that kind of had

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me labeled as a monster for years in

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school and really opened me up to so

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much abuse

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from teachers

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and so there was a day when i was

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sitting there drawing in my sketchbook

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trying not to be overwhelmed

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and

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the teacher basically hit me in the face

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and threw my sketchbook across the room

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i guess i guess nobody had told this

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particular teacher that this was

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allowable behavior

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and i was just

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so shocked and the sketchbook basically

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picked itself up and

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launched itself at the teacher and hit

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her in the back

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and here's another clip where she's

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telling a story about being in these

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laboratories

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where they're testing her ability to do

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pk

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yeah that was actually not uva that was

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people from the rhine research center it

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was uh jim carpenter who wrote the book

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first sight

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um he had basically

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kind of organized this thing where we

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all went to this really good mexican

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restaurant and

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you know he just wanted to show people

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this effect because he thought it was

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yeah we had the pinwheel in the jar on

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the table in the restaurant and i got it

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to spin and then we were passing it

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around and everyone was getting it to

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spin inside the jar and you know people

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were coming over and looking at what was

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going on at the table like it was you

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know and it was kind of this

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fun thing that everybody was doing

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okay that's that but as i mentioned

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this is really a show about

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bigger bigger bigger stuff the stuff

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that really matters because this whole

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psychokinesis stranger thing superpowers

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once you get past the fireworks

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forces us to look at some really really

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important questions about who we are

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about what really matters and it kind of

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knocks the nerd bird soulless

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transhumanist scientist

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on there but if you really think about

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it

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here's a final clip from the upcoming

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interview

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and you're approaching it from uh let's

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connect the dots and look for evidence

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which and i mean there's a scientist

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part of me that's like yeah but and and

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you're right if the pinwheel spins in

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the jar then there's something more

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to us

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that's it

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and if there's something more to us

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then i would suggest that the burden of

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proof

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is on those who were always fooled into

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thinking that there wasn't more to us

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to put forth the best evidence

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that some of that more

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stick around my interview with sheryl

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lee black is coming up next

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on skeptico

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welcome to skeptico where we explore

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controversial science and spirituality

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with leading researchers thinkers and

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their critics i'm your host alex akaris

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and today we welcome cheryly black back

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to skeptico

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cheryly

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welcome thank you so much for being here

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hi alex thanks for inviting me back

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so you thought i was going to do some

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long intro and then i tricked you by

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just immediately saying hi but i am

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going to do a little bit of an intro

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because you joined me back for people

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who

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remember or want to go back and listen

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on episode 470 of skeptico

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to talk about your experience with

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psychokinesis primarily that's what we

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talked about

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is your experience in the laboratory so

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psychokinesis just so we remember is

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we talked about it kind of in the

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stranger things thing or the men who

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stare at goats movie kind of thing

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people who can do things with their mind

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so in your case

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the reason that these

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major laboratories where scientists real

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scientists

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like at the university of virginia or at

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ryan or laurentian and canada or other

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places they wanted to invite you in

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because you could really do this stuff

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and like one of the experiments that

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you've demonstrated in these

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laboratories and other way other places

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where you've posted videos

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there's like this sealed jar

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and there's a little s pinwheel in it

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and you can like the girl on stranger

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things

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you can do something with just your mind

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and you can make the pinwheel spin

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and that

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changes

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everything

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we know about science in some real real

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fundamental ways and we're going to talk

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a little bit about that talk a lot about

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that because

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that point that i just made there is

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really not argued

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it just isn't fully processed and then

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the polit politics around science around

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that aren't really processed and you've

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been on the front line of that

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for

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a number of years you're still a phd

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candidate in good standing even though

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you're getting your phd in geology you

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were

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very involved with the scientific part

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of understanding this

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psychokinesis thing this parapsychology

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thing and what goes on

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in these labs

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ma'am is everything i've just said

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accurate and correct is there anything

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you want to change

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no as far as i know i'm still a phd

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candidate in good standing

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but that may change after this comes out

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okay point number two

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that you should know about shira lee

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and this is all part of my long

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introduction

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is that she's had near-death experience

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and i said that a funny way because i

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was didn't know

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how to say it because when you say

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somebody has

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had

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three near-death experiences

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i know from experience that people freak

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out

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they kind of for some reason they don't

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believe it you know like if somebody

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says i've had a near-death experience or

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somebody oh yeah i've heard about that i

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saw a video i read a book yeah somebody

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says i've had three near-death

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experiences oh come on man you're making

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that up that ain't real you know well in

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your case

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it is real and if people want they can

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go to ian's the international

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association of near-death experiencers i

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think or whatever your death studies uh

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near-death studies i'm sorry good

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yeah where you did a really terrific

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presentation it's up on youtube like a

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hundred thousand views and what i loved

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about that presentation

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let me pause for a second i'll bring

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that up just so people can see it

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you're laughing because i've just pulled

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up on the screen if people want to share

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it

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the presentation that you gave at ian's

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terrific you're really a very effective

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speaker you're very articulate you're

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just smart

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but you include it in here i guess in a

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very

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nice non-threatening canadian

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kind of way uh proof that what you're

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saying is true and proof

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about some of the

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larger aspects of your near-death

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experiences that they

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really kind of fit this pattern in your

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life of kind of extraordinary

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experiences and i'm highlighting that by

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bringing up this little image where

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you're showing like your second or third

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grade report card where the teacher has

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written cherylie seems to be in another

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world at times

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so

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the connection that i am making because

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you have made it in this presentation

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and in your fantastic book which i'm

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gonna make sure one way or another

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that thing gets published because it's a

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very very important book in my opinion

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but

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you document this stuff this stuff

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really happened the stuff the

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psychokinesis stuff really happened in

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the laboratory scientists have reported

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on it scientists have said yes this is

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the woman we've had in

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this is the peer-reviewed work we did

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here we published it in the case of

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near-death experience it's the same way

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you really did

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00:11:08,710 --> 00:11:06,560
come very very close to dying in your

287
00:11:12,550 --> 00:11:08,720
third near-death experience in a

288
00:11:14,790 --> 00:11:12,560
horrific horrific car accident that they

289
00:11:16,949 --> 00:11:14,800
left you know your husband

290
00:11:18,630 --> 00:11:16,959
at the time to say come identify the

291
00:11:21,190 --> 00:11:18,640
body thing there was no way they thought

292
00:11:22,230 --> 00:11:21,200
you were going to live through it so

293
00:11:24,870 --> 00:11:22,240
that

294
00:11:27,990 --> 00:11:24,880
those near-death experiences

295
00:11:29,430 --> 00:11:28,000
are also connected

296
00:11:31,430 --> 00:11:29,440
in a way

297
00:11:32,949 --> 00:11:31,440
with the psychokinesis

298
00:11:35,110 --> 00:11:32,959
and that's another thing we're going to

299
00:11:36,310 --> 00:11:35,120
want to talk about because

300
00:11:40,389 --> 00:11:36,320
that's

301
00:11:42,230 --> 00:11:40,399
point number two of this whole journey

302
00:11:43,430 --> 00:11:42,240
miss black

303
00:11:45,990 --> 00:11:43,440
is everything i said accurate and

304
00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:46,000
correct so far number two

305
00:11:48,470 --> 00:11:46,650
yeah

306
00:11:50,710 --> 00:11:48,480
[Laughter]

307
00:11:55,030 --> 00:11:50,720
so you really did have three near-death

308
00:11:59,509 --> 00:11:57,350
so here's the here's the clincher of

309
00:12:01,750 --> 00:11:59,519
this long introduction

310
00:12:03,670 --> 00:12:01,760
so i just published an interview with dr

311
00:12:06,710 --> 00:12:03,680
dean raiden

312
00:12:09,430 --> 00:12:06,720
cheryl lee has been a longtime

313
00:12:11,750 --> 00:12:09,440
friend of mine through the show

314
00:12:14,389 --> 00:12:11,760
and not in a kind of

315
00:12:15,990 --> 00:12:14,399
waving her arms out there i'm so great

316
00:12:17,750 --> 00:12:16,000
i've done all these things kind of thing

317
00:12:19,190 --> 00:12:17,760
actually just the opposite i didn't know

318
00:12:21,750 --> 00:12:19,200
really anything about her background i

319
00:12:24,389 --> 00:12:21,760
was like okay or somebody in the forum

320
00:12:26,949 --> 00:12:24,399
seems to know this stuff well over the

321
00:12:29,829 --> 00:12:26,959
years as i've come to know shirley

322
00:12:32,550 --> 00:12:29,839
i'm more and more and more amazed at

323
00:12:36,069 --> 00:12:32,560
what her background is and what she's

324
00:12:39,910 --> 00:12:36,079
knows at a very very personal level and

325
00:12:41,269 --> 00:12:39,920
has experienced so i've come to rely on

326
00:12:43,590 --> 00:12:41,279
her more and more

327
00:12:45,430 --> 00:12:43,600
in terms of just writing her emails and

328
00:12:46,710 --> 00:12:45,440
bouncing what do you know about this guy

329
00:12:48,629 --> 00:12:46,720
what do you know about this thing over

330
00:12:49,670 --> 00:12:48,639
there what do you think's really going

331
00:12:52,069 --> 00:12:49,680
on here

332
00:12:53,030 --> 00:12:52,079
and she's been very generous and very

333
00:12:55,509 --> 00:12:53,040
open

334
00:12:56,470 --> 00:12:55,519
about talking about that

335
00:12:57,670 --> 00:12:56,480
so

336
00:12:59,350 --> 00:12:57,680
now i'm going to give her a chance to

337
00:13:01,110 --> 00:12:59,360
talk because

338
00:13:02,470 --> 00:13:01,120
what's happened with the thing with dean

339
00:13:06,310 --> 00:13:02,480
rayden is

340
00:13:07,670 --> 00:13:06,320
it affected me i think a level that much

341
00:13:09,030 --> 00:13:07,680
more than it probably affects other

342
00:13:11,030 --> 00:13:09,040
people

343
00:13:12,870 --> 00:13:11,040
because

344
00:13:14,389 --> 00:13:12,880
there's something

345
00:13:16,389 --> 00:13:14,399
fundamentally

346
00:13:19,110 --> 00:13:16,399
important about

347
00:13:21,910 --> 00:13:19,120
how we are to understand

348
00:13:23,269 --> 00:13:21,920
all this stuff that we're talking about

349
00:13:29,350 --> 00:13:23,279
consciousness

350
00:13:31,430 --> 00:13:29,360
morality who are we why are we here how

351
00:13:33,910 --> 00:13:31,440
are we supposed to live our lives is

352
00:13:37,030 --> 00:13:33,920
there good is there bad is there right

353
00:13:38,870 --> 00:13:37,040
is there wrong is there something more

354
00:13:40,550 --> 00:13:38,880
is there light

355
00:13:42,150 --> 00:13:40,560
is there love

356
00:13:44,629 --> 00:13:42,160
when i set up this interview and i said

357
00:13:46,790 --> 00:13:44,639
the things i want to talk about

358
00:13:48,389 --> 00:13:46,800
you really set the tone again when you

359
00:13:49,750 --> 00:13:48,399
came back to me and said

360
00:13:51,590 --> 00:13:49,760
what i really want to talk about is i

361
00:13:52,790 --> 00:13:51,600
want to talk about love

362
00:13:54,870 --> 00:13:52,800
and

363
00:13:56,949 --> 00:13:54,880
that's what i want to talk about

364
00:13:57,910 --> 00:13:56,959
because

365
00:14:01,829 --> 00:13:57,920
my

366
00:14:03,430 --> 00:14:01,839
the interview that i did with dean

367
00:14:05,750 --> 00:14:03,440
raiden is

368
00:14:07,590 --> 00:14:05,760
you can't talk about love

369
00:14:09,670 --> 00:14:07,600
unless you talk about

370
00:14:10,629 --> 00:14:09,680
the moral imperative unless you talk

371
00:14:12,150 --> 00:14:10,639
about

372
00:14:13,030 --> 00:14:12,160
there is

373
00:14:16,550 --> 00:14:13,040
light

374
00:14:18,389 --> 00:14:16,560
there is love there is good there is bad

375
00:14:19,670 --> 00:14:18,399
so

376
00:14:23,350 --> 00:14:19,680
i've kind of laid out the whole

377
00:14:25,269 --> 00:14:23,360
interview now we just have to do it so

378
00:14:28,389 --> 00:14:25,279
now i can really say

379
00:14:30,470 --> 00:14:28,399
welcome back uh thanks for joining me

380
00:14:32,230 --> 00:14:30,480
and now we can kind of

381
00:14:34,790 --> 00:14:32,240
jump into the the real heart of this

382
00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:38,710
so now what do i say

383
00:14:44,389 --> 00:14:41,910
i don't know quite where to begin to be

384
00:14:46,710 --> 00:14:44,399
honest with you because like one of the

385
00:14:53,030 --> 00:14:46,720
questions

386
00:14:55,430 --> 00:14:53,040
and it's not even a question it's like

387
00:14:57,670 --> 00:14:55,440
what can science do for us

388
00:15:00,389 --> 00:14:57,680
science can't save us

389
00:15:02,230 --> 00:15:00,399
but what can science do for us and i

390
00:15:03,910 --> 00:15:02,240
guess if i was going to turn that into a

391
00:15:06,870 --> 00:15:03,920
question is

392
00:15:08,310 --> 00:15:06,880
why did you think it was important for

393
00:15:09,430 --> 00:15:08,320
you to go

394
00:15:11,030 --> 00:15:09,440
and

395
00:15:13,110 --> 00:15:11,040
have this

396
00:15:15,910 --> 00:15:13,120
ability that you have

397
00:15:17,509 --> 00:15:15,920
the men who stare at goats pk ability

398
00:15:19,269 --> 00:15:17,519
why did you feel

399
00:15:21,189 --> 00:15:19,279
you needed to go put that under the

400
00:15:23,269 --> 00:15:21,199
microscope or allow other people to put

401
00:15:25,509 --> 00:15:23,279
that under the microscope how does how

402
00:15:27,110 --> 00:15:25,519
does it connect for you with what i'm

403
00:15:29,670 --> 00:15:27,120
talking about with love with near-death

404
00:15:31,189 --> 00:15:29,680
experience with all the rest of that

405
00:15:32,949 --> 00:15:31,199
well at first i didn't really think it

406
00:15:34,069 --> 00:15:32,959
was connected to love

407
00:15:36,310 --> 00:15:34,079
but

408
00:15:38,790 --> 00:15:36,320
it was i mean at the time i was working

409
00:15:41,590 --> 00:15:38,800
you know on my science education

410
00:15:43,910 --> 00:15:41,600
and i wanted to know that i wasn't crazy

411
00:15:46,790 --> 00:15:43,920
i you know i wanted to know that

412
00:15:48,470 --> 00:15:46,800
everything that i'd experienced

413
00:15:50,230 --> 00:15:48,480
um well actually for a long time i

414
00:15:55,350 --> 00:15:50,240
wanted a cure

415
00:15:58,230 --> 00:15:55,360
wanted to prove to myself that that this

416
00:15:59,910 --> 00:15:58,240
stuff was just nonsense because

417
00:16:01,189 --> 00:15:59,920
that's what my education had kind of

418
00:16:04,069 --> 00:16:01,199
been teaching me

419
00:16:08,550 --> 00:16:06,069
it didn't seem to work out that way like

420
00:16:10,949 --> 00:16:08,560
you know i i went to laurentian

421
00:16:13,670 --> 00:16:10,959
university and you know dr persinger and

422
00:16:16,150 --> 00:16:13,680
bill roll were like no this isn't

423
00:16:18,310 --> 00:16:16,160
fantasy this this is real stuff and

424
00:16:19,430 --> 00:16:18,320
we're going to study it and

425
00:16:21,670 --> 00:16:19,440
i mean

426
00:16:24,629 --> 00:16:21,680
that first trip to laurentian that was a

427
00:16:26,310 --> 00:16:24,639
really big game changer for me

428
00:16:27,990 --> 00:16:26,320
and it's funny because

429
00:16:29,910 --> 00:16:28,000
so many parapsychologists have told me

430
00:16:31,189 --> 00:16:29,920
not to go there

431
00:16:33,269 --> 00:16:31,199
um

432
00:16:35,350 --> 00:16:33,279
you know and yet

433
00:16:36,710 --> 00:16:35,360
that was a huge game changer for me

434
00:16:38,949 --> 00:16:36,720
because

435
00:16:40,790 --> 00:16:38,959
you know it taught me that you could

436
00:16:42,470 --> 00:16:40,800
study these things and that there was

437
00:16:44,550 --> 00:16:42,480
some reality

438
00:16:46,470 --> 00:16:44,560
you know to what was going on and that i

439
00:16:47,829 --> 00:16:46,480
wasn't crazy

440
00:16:49,749 --> 00:16:47,839
and

441
00:16:51,749 --> 00:16:49,759
it's very hard to accept the love when

442
00:16:53,350 --> 00:16:51,759
you think you're crazy

443
00:16:55,430 --> 00:16:53,360
you know

444
00:16:58,389 --> 00:16:55,440
um

445
00:16:59,590 --> 00:16:58,399
so by figuring out that you're not crazy

446
00:17:03,189 --> 00:16:59,600
um

447
00:17:04,549 --> 00:17:03,199
then you can be open to the love really

448
00:17:07,350 --> 00:17:04,559
and and

449
00:17:09,429 --> 00:17:07,360
so it was i mean science was kind of my

450
00:17:11,189 --> 00:17:09,439
way in

451
00:17:13,909 --> 00:17:11,199
but even then like you know you could

452
00:17:15,590 --> 00:17:13,919
see like i didn't realize it so much at

453
00:17:17,510 --> 00:17:15,600
the time like now you know since i've

454
00:17:20,069 --> 00:17:17,520
been talking to you we've been kind of

455
00:17:22,390 --> 00:17:20,079
you know hindsight being 2020

456
00:17:23,270 --> 00:17:22,400
and realizing that

457
00:17:25,189 --> 00:17:23,280
that

458
00:17:27,829 --> 00:17:25,199
personer was far more brave than i

459
00:17:30,310 --> 00:17:27,839
realized at the time that he was willing

460
00:17:31,590 --> 00:17:30,320
to actually study these things

461
00:17:34,549 --> 00:17:31,600
and

462
00:17:36,390 --> 00:17:34,559
i i mean he really

463
00:17:37,669 --> 00:17:36,400
had a hard time with his university did

464
00:17:40,470 --> 00:17:37,679
not want him

465
00:17:42,950 --> 00:17:40,480
looking into these areas at all

466
00:17:45,350 --> 00:17:42,960
and and it's you know he i mean he

467
00:17:47,430 --> 00:17:45,360
funded his own work

468
00:17:49,270 --> 00:17:47,440
which i mean not very many professors

469
00:17:51,110 --> 00:17:49,280
will do that

470
00:17:53,110 --> 00:17:51,120
um

471
00:17:54,710 --> 00:17:53,120
because he just felt that it was so

472
00:17:55,510 --> 00:17:54,720
important

473
00:17:58,950 --> 00:17:55,520
and

474
00:18:03,350 --> 00:18:01,990
that you know that that i i had no idea

475
00:18:06,230 --> 00:18:03,360
at the time just

476
00:18:07,750 --> 00:18:06,240
just what a good person he was

477
00:18:09,830 --> 00:18:07,760
um

478
00:18:10,789 --> 00:18:09,840
see i kind of see it differently in a

479
00:18:15,110 --> 00:18:10,799
way

480
00:18:17,029 --> 00:18:15,120
because your story your history to me is

481
00:18:19,510 --> 00:18:17,039
you're someone who had extended

482
00:18:20,870 --> 00:18:19,520
conscious experiences from a very very

483
00:18:21,750 --> 00:18:20,880
young age right

484
00:18:25,430 --> 00:18:21,760
yeah

485
00:18:26,789 --> 00:18:25,440
didn't you have the grandpa at the

486
00:18:32,310 --> 00:18:26,799
at the

487
00:18:33,830 --> 00:18:32,320
am i misremembering that

488
00:18:35,110 --> 00:18:33,840
didn't you see

489
00:18:36,230 --> 00:18:35,120
uh

490
00:18:37,430 --> 00:18:36,240
a grandma

491
00:18:38,230 --> 00:18:37,440
yeah

492
00:18:40,070 --> 00:18:38,240
so

493
00:18:42,230 --> 00:18:40,080
i kind of got it right that was pretty

494
00:18:44,950 --> 00:18:42,240
close he had that that stare like what

495
00:18:47,270 --> 00:18:44,960
are you talking about

496
00:18:48,950 --> 00:18:47,280
no but i mean yeah you know i did see my

497
00:18:50,870 --> 00:18:48,960
grandma when i was little and yeah i did

498
00:18:52,950 --> 00:18:50,880
have those experiences

499
00:18:54,789 --> 00:18:52,960
but you know i kind of went

500
00:18:56,549 --> 00:18:54,799
it's funny because before i had an

501
00:18:58,230 --> 00:18:56,559
education in science

502
00:19:00,390 --> 00:18:58,240
i didn't worry so much about having

503
00:19:02,710 --> 00:19:00,400
those experiences

504
00:19:04,630 --> 00:19:02,720
and then after my car accident and

505
00:19:06,870 --> 00:19:04,640
suddenly i was really really super

506
00:19:09,110 --> 00:19:06,880
interested in science

507
00:19:11,190 --> 00:19:09,120
and it was really the education and

508
00:19:13,190 --> 00:19:11,200
science that was like

509
00:19:14,870 --> 00:19:13,200
you know you must be crazy like you know

510
00:19:16,789 --> 00:19:14,880
like it really didn't fit with what the

511
00:19:18,230 --> 00:19:16,799
university was telling me

512
00:19:22,070 --> 00:19:18,240
and

513
00:19:23,590 --> 00:19:22,080
important like

514
00:19:26,150 --> 00:19:23,600
because you know i came back thinking

515
00:19:27,110 --> 00:19:26,160
the science is really important and

516
00:19:31,430 --> 00:19:27,120
and

517
00:19:33,029 --> 00:19:31,440
me you're imagining things like what am

518
00:19:34,630 --> 00:19:33,039
i you know what am i going to do

519
00:19:36,230 --> 00:19:34,640
um

520
00:19:38,390 --> 00:19:36,240
you know and it's kind of funny because

521
00:19:40,549 --> 00:19:38,400
if i'd actually looked

522
00:19:42,549 --> 00:19:40,559
into these things more if i'd known what

523
00:19:44,310 --> 00:19:42,559
to look for at the universities i mean

524
00:19:46,070 --> 00:19:44,320
university of manitoba where i did my

525
00:19:48,870 --> 00:19:46,080
undergraduate degrees

526
00:19:52,710 --> 00:19:48,880
they have a very large collection of

527
00:19:53,590 --> 00:19:52,720
spirituality photographs and

528
00:19:55,590 --> 00:19:53,600
you know

529
00:19:58,549 --> 00:19:55,600
i guess the first head of the college of

530
00:20:02,870 --> 00:19:58,559
physicians and surgeons in manitoba

531
00:20:06,789 --> 00:20:04,630
and

532
00:20:08,549 --> 00:20:06,799
there's a fairly extensive collection at

533
00:20:10,950 --> 00:20:08,559
the university of manitoba that i had no

534
00:20:13,590 --> 00:20:10,960
idea was there well i was a student

535
00:20:15,909 --> 00:20:13,600
and i i wish i had known

536
00:20:18,230 --> 00:20:15,919
you know and it's like it's a dirty

537
00:20:19,669 --> 00:20:18,240
secret

538
00:20:21,750 --> 00:20:19,679
of

539
00:20:23,350 --> 00:20:21,760
you know academia that

540
00:20:25,590 --> 00:20:23,360
you know it's kind of like

541
00:20:27,669 --> 00:20:25,600
you you don't look at

542
00:20:29,430 --> 00:20:27,679
newton's other interests

543
00:20:32,390 --> 00:20:29,440
you know like you know like when you

544
00:20:34,870 --> 00:20:32,400
look at newton and yeah

545
00:20:36,549 --> 00:20:34,880
you know you you look at gravity and

546
00:20:38,390 --> 00:20:36,559
things but you don't look at the fact

547
00:20:41,110 --> 00:20:38,400
that he was also interested in alchemy

548
00:20:44,390 --> 00:20:42,630
yeah i don't know quite where to take

549
00:20:46,830 --> 00:20:44,400
that because when you know i don't know

550
00:20:50,390 --> 00:20:46,840
that the interest in alchemy was

551
00:20:53,430 --> 00:20:50,400
that spot on either i mean no but the

552
00:20:55,590 --> 00:20:53,440
fact that people do you know that

553
00:20:57,430 --> 00:20:55,600
that it's like only the accepted parts

554
00:20:59,350 --> 00:20:57,440
of them are allowed to

555
00:21:00,950 --> 00:20:59,360
carry on through history

556
00:21:02,870 --> 00:21:00,960
and so

557
00:21:05,590 --> 00:21:02,880
you don't realize when you're a student

558
00:21:09,350 --> 00:21:05,600
particularly as an undergrad how much is

559
00:21:13,270 --> 00:21:11,029
you know

560
00:21:14,870 --> 00:21:13,280
well i definitely think that's true

561
00:21:16,390 --> 00:21:14,880
i guess

562
00:21:18,390 --> 00:21:16,400
it's it's your

563
00:21:20,710 --> 00:21:18,400
it's your story

564
00:21:22,470 --> 00:21:20,720
in your life you know and i'm reading it

565
00:21:24,310 --> 00:21:22,480
and interpreting it

566
00:21:26,230 --> 00:21:24,320
but i gotta say i'm interpreting it a

567
00:21:28,710 --> 00:21:26,240
little bit slightly differently than you

568
00:21:29,830 --> 00:21:28,720
are although maybe the same

569
00:21:33,110 --> 00:21:29,840
is that

570
00:21:34,549 --> 00:21:33,120
you're uh a person in this family who

571
00:21:36,470 --> 00:21:34,559
has these

572
00:21:38,149 --> 00:21:36,480
gifts that are

573
00:21:40,470 --> 00:21:38,159
unexplainable

574
00:21:42,230 --> 00:21:40,480
and a lot of people in your family most

575
00:21:45,029 --> 00:21:42,240
people in your family are like

576
00:21:45,830 --> 00:21:45,039
she's weird we don't know what's going

577
00:21:49,350 --> 00:21:45,840
on

578
00:21:51,430 --> 00:21:49,360
family who's like

579
00:21:53,990 --> 00:21:51,440
no she ain't weird she's special this is

580
00:21:55,669 --> 00:21:54,000
really a gift and it needs to be

581
00:21:58,950 --> 00:21:55,679
somebody needs to tell her

582
00:22:03,350 --> 00:21:58,960
it's good and it's it's really important

583
00:22:05,909 --> 00:22:03,360
so you go through this life kind of not

584
00:22:08,789 --> 00:22:05,919
feeling totally confident because this

585
00:22:10,390 --> 00:22:08,799
essential part of you is

586
00:22:13,590 --> 00:22:10,400
kind of

587
00:22:15,430 --> 00:22:13,600
not so well yeah put down yeah

588
00:22:17,350 --> 00:22:15,440
and it's funny because when i look into

589
00:22:19,669 --> 00:22:17,360
the history of my family

590
00:22:21,110 --> 00:22:19,679
like i'm i'm certainly not the first one

591
00:22:22,470 --> 00:22:21,120
like me

592
00:22:25,909 --> 00:22:22,480
and

593
00:22:28,470 --> 00:22:25,919
you know some of the women that were

594
00:22:31,270 --> 00:22:28,480
like me i mean one was like the first

595
00:22:32,630 --> 00:22:31,280
woman to to be a doctor in the province

596
00:22:34,149 --> 00:22:32,640
that i grew up in

597
00:22:37,510 --> 00:22:34,159
you know to have a have a medical

598
00:22:40,630 --> 00:22:37,520
practice and and she was like me and

599
00:22:42,390 --> 00:22:40,640
another one was you know a registered

600
00:22:43,270 --> 00:22:42,400
nurse who grew up

601
00:22:45,830 --> 00:22:43,280
um

602
00:22:48,070 --> 00:22:45,840
in a traditional mennonite family that

603
00:22:50,070 --> 00:22:48,080
became a nurse and a private nurse of a

604
00:22:51,990 --> 00:22:50,080
millionaire and traveled the world and

605
00:22:54,950 --> 00:22:52,000
did things that

606
00:22:56,630 --> 00:22:54,960
were not really considered what you do

607
00:22:59,190 --> 00:22:56,640
when you grow up

608
00:23:00,149 --> 00:22:59,200
in a traditional mennonite community

609
00:23:01,590 --> 00:23:00,159
um

610
00:23:03,830 --> 00:23:01,600
you know and and

611
00:23:06,070 --> 00:23:03,840
and when she had dreams and everybody

612
00:23:08,470 --> 00:23:06,080
would be like oh she you know this is

613
00:23:10,310 --> 00:23:08,480
what she had she dreamt about and

614
00:23:11,990 --> 00:23:10,320
it was kind of an adult conversation

615
00:23:13,830 --> 00:23:12,000
like when i was a kid like

616
00:23:15,750 --> 00:23:13,840
you know you didn't really talk openly

617
00:23:17,510 --> 00:23:15,760
about what she what she dreamed about

618
00:23:19,669 --> 00:23:17,520
but clearly other people took it

619
00:23:21,590 --> 00:23:19,679
seriously even while they were

620
00:23:22,789 --> 00:23:21,600
poo-pooing it and then i had an uncle

621
00:23:24,950 --> 00:23:22,799
who

622
00:23:27,669 --> 00:23:24,960
was horribly scarred

623
00:23:29,430 --> 00:23:27,679
as a veteran of the second world war and

624
00:23:30,710 --> 00:23:29,440
he actually ended up in a concentration

625
00:23:33,909 --> 00:23:30,720
camp

626
00:23:37,190 --> 00:23:33,919
and uh you know he saw the ghosts of

627
00:23:39,110 --> 00:23:37,200
his battalion and

628
00:23:41,590 --> 00:23:39,120
you know he carried those with them

629
00:23:43,110 --> 00:23:41,600
until he passed away but but i mean he

630
00:23:45,110 --> 00:23:43,120
was the first adult when i was a little

631
00:23:47,029 --> 00:23:45,120
kid that i remember talking about seeing

632
00:23:49,990 --> 00:23:47,039
ghosts like it because and i used to

633
00:23:52,310 --> 00:23:50,000
wonder well i thought everyone saw them

634
00:23:54,310 --> 00:23:52,320
but the adults just pretended they

635
00:23:56,710 --> 00:23:54,320
didn't or just it like it wasn't talked

636
00:23:57,669 --> 00:23:56,720
about in like company like sex

637
00:23:58,950 --> 00:23:57,679
you know

638
00:24:00,310 --> 00:23:58,960
like i just thought it was just one of

639
00:24:02,470 --> 00:24:00,320
those things you didn't talk about

640
00:24:05,190 --> 00:24:02,480
openly but that everybody knew it was

641
00:24:06,950 --> 00:24:05,200
there

642
00:24:09,029 --> 00:24:06,960
yeah so

643
00:24:11,350 --> 00:24:09,039
you know when you tie that into like

644
00:24:13,590 --> 00:24:11,360
your near-death experience

645
00:24:14,950 --> 00:24:13,600
says but in particular your third

646
00:24:17,029 --> 00:24:14,960
near-death experience where you almost

647
00:24:18,950 --> 00:24:17,039
died in this car crash

648
00:24:20,950 --> 00:24:18,960
so a couple interesting things come out

649
00:24:22,470 --> 00:24:20,960
of that

650
00:24:24,149 --> 00:24:22,480
and again i tie it back to what i was

651
00:24:26,310 --> 00:24:24,159
saying at the beginning

652
00:24:27,029 --> 00:24:26,320
you know there's this crazy interplay

653
00:24:28,789 --> 00:24:27,039
that we're gonna have in this

654
00:24:32,630 --> 00:24:28,799
conversation the interplay is between

655
00:24:34,149 --> 00:24:32,640
science and spirituality and i think

656
00:24:36,390 --> 00:24:34,159
science has a role to play here that's

657
00:24:39,430 --> 00:24:36,400
why we're having this conversation well

658
00:24:42,390 --> 00:24:39,440
when you have your near-death experience

659
00:24:44,549 --> 00:24:42,400
you don't know totally how to process it

660
00:24:46,470 --> 00:24:44,559
but you gain some benefit from some of

661
00:24:48,549 --> 00:24:46,480
the science of near-death experience

662
00:24:51,029 --> 00:24:48,559
that tells you that the after effects

663
00:24:52,950 --> 00:24:51,039
you're having which in your case is

664
00:24:55,669 --> 00:24:52,960
increased psychic ability

665
00:24:57,510 --> 00:24:55,679
which has now been documented by other

666
00:24:59,909 --> 00:24:57,520
researchers into near-death experience

667
00:25:01,510 --> 00:24:59,919
and said well shirley i don't know if

668
00:25:02,870 --> 00:25:01,520
you're experiencing that or not but if

669
00:25:06,310 --> 00:25:02,880
you were to

670
00:25:08,549 --> 00:25:06,320
it would not be all that uncommon

671
00:25:10,789 --> 00:25:08,559
that sometimes happens to people who

672
00:25:13,190 --> 00:25:10,799
have near-death experiences and that's

673
00:25:15,110 --> 00:25:13,200
important information for you because we

674
00:25:17,190 --> 00:25:15,120
can hear from your story how difficult

675
00:25:19,430 --> 00:25:17,200
it was for you to process

676
00:25:21,909 --> 00:25:19,440
that change that going from a person

677
00:25:24,390 --> 00:25:21,919
who's artistic and musical to a person

678
00:25:25,269 --> 00:25:24,400
who just wants to study science and it's

679
00:25:28,470 --> 00:25:25,279
like

680
00:25:33,029 --> 00:25:28,480
why why is that happening and

681
00:25:36,070 --> 00:25:33,039
why am i having these increased

682
00:25:37,110 --> 00:25:36,080
psychokinesis powers why when my first

683
00:25:38,470 --> 00:25:37,120
husband

684
00:25:41,029 --> 00:25:38,480
tries to kill me

685
00:25:42,950 --> 00:25:41,039
does all the lights in the house go on

686
00:25:46,390 --> 00:25:42,960
and off and he gets so frightened that

687
00:25:49,830 --> 00:25:46,400
he has to run out of the house this is

688
00:25:51,909 --> 00:25:49,840
right out of again some movie

689
00:25:54,830 --> 00:25:51,919
but this is your life

690
00:25:58,549 --> 00:25:54,840
and it's super duper important as it

691
00:26:00,390 --> 00:25:58,559
relates to science and to science's

692
00:26:02,470 --> 00:26:00,400
fundamental assumptions

693
00:26:04,310 --> 00:26:02,480
so i want to start

694
00:26:06,710 --> 00:26:04,320
piecing that together

695
00:26:09,190 --> 00:26:06,720
in a scientific way

696
00:26:12,310 --> 00:26:09,200
how much did you know about the

697
00:26:14,070 --> 00:26:12,320
near-death experience after you had your

698
00:26:16,310 --> 00:26:14,080
car wreck

699
00:26:17,909 --> 00:26:16,320
nothing

700
00:26:20,710 --> 00:26:17,919
i didn't know it i

701
00:26:23,909 --> 00:26:20,720
i didn't know anything about it and

702
00:26:27,830 --> 00:26:23,919
the first first bit of information i got

703
00:26:30,789 --> 00:26:27,840
was from an an army uh chaplain

704
00:26:32,230 --> 00:26:30,799
you know a padre actually and uh

705
00:26:36,549 --> 00:26:32,240
and

706
00:26:37,909 --> 00:26:36,559
you know i was

707
00:26:40,390 --> 00:26:37,919
in the military at the time and i had

708
00:26:42,310 --> 00:26:40,400
questions and i asked him and he told me

709
00:26:45,510 --> 00:26:42,320
that well he didn't have a name for the

710
00:26:47,590 --> 00:26:45,520
experience but he said that it was a

711
00:26:49,510 --> 00:26:47,600
common experience for

712
00:26:50,789 --> 00:26:49,520
people in the military who'd almost died

713
00:26:51,669 --> 00:26:50,799
or had been

714
00:26:55,350 --> 00:26:51,679
you know

715
00:26:57,029 --> 00:26:55,360
in terrible combat situations

716
00:27:00,870 --> 00:26:57,039
and

717
00:27:03,669 --> 00:27:00,880
actually a fairly common experience for

718
00:27:06,870 --> 00:27:03,679
people who'd undergone you know

719
00:27:08,470 --> 00:27:06,880
trauma and and almost been killed but he

720
00:27:10,549 --> 00:27:08,480
didn't come up with a name for it but

721
00:27:13,110 --> 00:27:10,559
what he did do is he said we don't want

722
00:27:15,350 --> 00:27:13,120
this on your record in any way so i'm

723
00:27:17,430 --> 00:27:15,360
going to send you to a friend of mine in

724
00:27:19,590 --> 00:27:17,440
this in this

725
00:27:21,510 --> 00:27:19,600
church in your community

726
00:27:23,590 --> 00:27:21,520
and we'll just keep this quiet and you

727
00:27:25,190 --> 00:27:23,600
can go talk to this person and we'll

728
00:27:26,870 --> 00:27:25,200
keep this out of your military records

729
00:27:30,789 --> 00:27:26,880
because you're not crazy but we don't

730
00:27:36,470 --> 00:27:33,430
okay in that partially

731
00:27:39,269 --> 00:27:36,480
that partially answers it from one way

732
00:27:41,830 --> 00:27:39,279
but see the thing that that doesn't

733
00:27:44,230 --> 00:27:41,840
i mean you know this stuff is real right

734
00:27:45,110 --> 00:27:44,240
so this is another i i don't know quite

735
00:27:47,029 --> 00:27:45,120
how to

736
00:27:49,190 --> 00:27:47,039
try this

737
00:27:51,190 --> 00:27:49,200
rick and shirley you know it's real so

738
00:27:53,909 --> 00:27:51,200
that the chaplain doesn't uh doesn't

739
00:27:55,750 --> 00:27:53,919
know the padre he doesn't know he's just

740
00:27:57,029 --> 00:27:55,760
repeating back and he's following the

741
00:27:59,590 --> 00:27:57,039
procedures

742
00:28:02,230 --> 00:27:59,600
you've seen ghosts your whole life

743
00:28:03,990 --> 00:28:02,240
so whatever it is you're doing in terms

744
00:28:06,389 --> 00:28:04,000
of processing the new death experience

745
00:28:07,350 --> 00:28:06,399
and the near-death experience that you

746
00:28:09,269 --> 00:28:07,360
had

747
00:28:11,830 --> 00:28:09,279
you're processing it from your

748
00:28:15,830 --> 00:28:11,840
experience right

749
00:28:17,990 --> 00:28:15,840
yes but you know there's this thing that

750
00:28:20,149 --> 00:28:18,000
you know like the big difference between

751
00:28:22,630 --> 00:28:20,159
the near-death experience and seeing

752
00:28:24,389 --> 00:28:22,640
ghosts is that when you see ghosts you

753
00:28:27,510 --> 00:28:24,399
will forget

754
00:28:28,470 --> 00:28:27,520
like there's just some part of us

755
00:28:30,470 --> 00:28:28,480
and there's some part of these

756
00:28:33,269 --> 00:28:30,480
experiences like if i didn't write

757
00:28:35,430 --> 00:28:33,279
everything down i it just amazes me how

758
00:28:37,510 --> 00:28:35,440
much of it i just managed to put out of

759
00:28:38,710 --> 00:28:37,520
my mind and forget

760
00:28:40,310 --> 00:28:38,720
and

761
00:28:41,669 --> 00:28:40,320
you know like when i was writing my book

762
00:28:44,149 --> 00:28:41,679
i went through old diaries and i was

763
00:28:46,710 --> 00:28:44,159
like oh my god like now i remember this

764
00:28:48,710 --> 00:28:46,720
because i'm reading this again and i and

765
00:28:50,310 --> 00:28:48,720
and now it's like coming back to me full

766
00:28:52,470 --> 00:28:50,320
force but

767
00:28:54,310 --> 00:28:52,480
but you push things away where the

768
00:28:55,909 --> 00:28:54,320
near-death experience the weird thing

769
00:28:59,909 --> 00:28:55,919
about the near-death experience is you

770
00:29:01,909 --> 00:28:59,919
can't get rid of it it it has a hold on

771
00:29:05,029 --> 00:29:01,919
you and you carry it with you

772
00:29:07,830 --> 00:29:05,039
in a way that the other experiences

773
00:29:09,350 --> 00:29:07,840
aren't able to stay with you

774
00:29:11,830 --> 00:29:09,360
okay

775
00:29:13,990 --> 00:29:11,840
again i i don't know i don't know that

776
00:29:15,909 --> 00:29:14,000
this is this might be a totally useless

777
00:29:17,669 --> 00:29:15,919
interview for anybody but

778
00:29:19,110 --> 00:29:17,679
but me but me because for me i'm

779
00:29:20,710 --> 00:29:19,120
fascinated

780
00:29:22,230 --> 00:29:20,720
because see it doesn't it it doesn't

781
00:29:23,590 --> 00:29:22,240
sync up here again

782
00:29:27,990 --> 00:29:23,600
it's like

783
00:29:29,909 --> 00:29:28,000
are kind of being pushed in this

784
00:29:31,029 --> 00:29:29,919
different direction through this journey

785
00:29:32,549 --> 00:29:31,039
that we're on

786
00:29:34,070 --> 00:29:32,559
because the next thing that you talk

787
00:29:36,230 --> 00:29:34,080
about is

788
00:29:38,950 --> 00:29:36,240
gee i'm having these

789
00:29:41,110 --> 00:29:38,960
paranormal experiences and i want i just

790
00:29:42,870 --> 00:29:41,120
want them to go away which i can't

791
00:29:45,430 --> 00:29:42,880
really process on a complete level that

792
00:29:46,470 --> 00:29:45,440
you ever thought that was really but

793
00:29:47,830 --> 00:29:46,480
well let's just take that because

794
00:29:49,750 --> 00:29:47,840
there's a lot of

795
00:29:53,590 --> 00:29:49,760
trauma it's causing you in your life but

796
00:29:56,870 --> 00:29:53,600
then two you know i'm gonna agree to go

797
00:29:57,750 --> 00:29:56,880
to these laboratories and have them test

798
00:30:05,669 --> 00:29:57,760
this

799
00:30:08,470 --> 00:30:05,679
incredibly extend expanded view

800
00:30:10,870 --> 00:30:08,480
of these extended realms and you're

801
00:30:12,870 --> 00:30:10,880
gonna say okay you want me to spin a

802
00:30:16,549 --> 00:30:12,880
wheel under a glass

803
00:30:19,990 --> 00:30:16,559
okay let me see if i can spin a wheel

804
00:30:22,789 --> 00:30:20,000
under a glass i mean that's like a

805
00:30:25,510 --> 00:30:22,799
fraction of a fraction of a fraction of

806
00:30:28,470 --> 00:30:25,520
what this stuff is all about but if you

807
00:30:30,389 --> 00:30:28,480
want me to spin a wheel under a glass

808
00:30:32,310 --> 00:30:30,399
okay

809
00:30:34,310 --> 00:30:32,320
do you get how that looks do you get do

810
00:30:35,750 --> 00:30:34,320
you know what i mean how that looks from

811
00:30:36,710 --> 00:30:35,760
you know if you really try and process

812
00:30:38,470 --> 00:30:36,720
your

813
00:30:40,870 --> 00:30:38,480
the whole thing that you're about

814
00:30:43,830 --> 00:30:40,880
there's this like

815
00:30:46,230 --> 00:30:43,840
little bit of a disconnect

816
00:30:49,029 --> 00:30:46,240
it is but you know because at the time i

817
00:30:51,430 --> 00:30:49,039
was studying science i actually

818
00:30:53,590 --> 00:30:51,440
really really wanted to come up with a

819
00:30:55,510 --> 00:30:53,600
small repeatable effect

820
00:30:57,669 --> 00:30:55,520
like i wanted it to be a small effect

821
00:31:00,070 --> 00:30:57,679
not too big an effect i mean that was

822
00:31:02,230 --> 00:31:00,080
because i thought if it's a big effect

823
00:31:03,990 --> 00:31:02,240
people will be terrified of me i'll be

824
00:31:06,950 --> 00:31:04,000
terri like i thought i mean i was

825
00:31:08,549 --> 00:31:06,960
worried i'd be i was becoming a monster

826
00:31:10,070 --> 00:31:08,559
you know like there there is that

827
00:31:11,750 --> 00:31:10,080
feeling that

828
00:31:12,870 --> 00:31:11,760
you know does this make me a monster

829
00:31:15,029 --> 00:31:12,880
like this

830
00:31:18,070 --> 00:31:15,039
whatever because you because your

831
00:31:19,509 --> 00:31:18,080
feelings if they got real intense could

832
00:31:21,350 --> 00:31:19,519
cause

833
00:31:23,509 --> 00:31:21,360
stranger things kind of stuff lights

834
00:31:25,190 --> 00:31:23,519
going on and off you know people feeling

835
00:31:26,630 --> 00:31:25,200
it that kind of stuff right that's what

836
00:31:28,549 --> 00:31:26,640
you're experiencing

837
00:31:30,950 --> 00:31:28,559
yeah that you know that you could scare

838
00:31:32,630 --> 00:31:30,960
people with it i mean even just spinning

839
00:31:33,990 --> 00:31:32,640
the wheel into the pinwheel i've had

840
00:31:35,830 --> 00:31:34,000
lots of people

841
00:31:38,230 --> 00:31:35,840
in my family who've seen it and said oh

842
00:31:40,549 --> 00:31:38,240
that's really creepy and they you know

843
00:31:41,990 --> 00:31:40,559
like they don't say oh that's really

844
00:31:44,870 --> 00:31:42,000
interesting and cool they look at it and

845
00:31:48,630 --> 00:31:44,880
go that's really creepy stop it

846
00:31:49,750 --> 00:31:48,640
you know and and so so you know you

847
00:31:51,990 --> 00:31:49,760
you don't do it

848
00:31:54,549 --> 00:31:52,000
anymore and and you don't talk about it

849
00:31:57,029 --> 00:31:54,559
and and they will if you ask them if

850
00:31:58,549 --> 00:31:57,039
they've ever seen it they'll deny it

851
00:32:02,070 --> 00:31:58,559
you know that's the one thing i find

852
00:32:03,669 --> 00:32:02,080
that that that if anything big happens

853
00:32:05,269 --> 00:32:03,679
even people who are used to little

854
00:32:06,230 --> 00:32:05,279
things happening if something big

855
00:32:08,230 --> 00:32:06,240
happens

856
00:32:10,789 --> 00:32:08,240
people who are close to me um they'll

857
00:32:11,909 --> 00:32:10,799
forget the big things moving

858
00:32:12,789 --> 00:32:11,919
um

859
00:32:14,389 --> 00:32:12,799
you know

860
00:32:18,789 --> 00:32:14,399
it's just

861
00:32:21,110 --> 00:32:18,799
and so i didn't want that i didn't want

862
00:32:22,710 --> 00:32:21,120
to be a monster like you know and i mean

863
00:32:24,470 --> 00:32:22,720
now that i read some of the books like

864
00:32:26,789 --> 00:32:24,480
the pk man

865
00:32:31,110 --> 00:32:26,799
you know like

866
00:32:32,710 --> 00:32:31,120
like he did at whether or not he caused

867
00:32:34,870 --> 00:32:32,720
you know bad things to happen to people

868
00:32:36,470 --> 00:32:34,880
he thought he did

869
00:32:38,630 --> 00:32:36,480
yeah then that that would open up the

870
00:32:39,830 --> 00:32:38,640
whole e.t can of worms i don't even want

871
00:32:42,710 --> 00:32:39,840
to go there

872
00:32:44,630 --> 00:32:42,720
uh tell tell the story about when you

873
00:32:46,310 --> 00:32:44,640
were a kid in school

874
00:32:47,190 --> 00:32:46,320
in the book

875
00:32:49,430 --> 00:32:47,200
no

876
00:32:52,950 --> 00:32:49,440
i hate that story and

877
00:32:55,509 --> 00:32:52,960
why do you hate that story cause

878
00:32:57,110 --> 00:32:55,519
because that was just an event that kind

879
00:32:59,590 --> 00:32:57,120
of

880
00:33:02,310 --> 00:32:59,600
had me labeled as a monster for years in

881
00:33:03,750 --> 00:33:02,320
school and really opened me up to so

882
00:33:05,750 --> 00:33:03,760
much abuse

883
00:33:08,389 --> 00:33:05,760
from teachers

884
00:33:12,789 --> 00:33:08,399
and you know

885
00:33:18,070 --> 00:33:15,430
i was always bored in school and i was

886
00:33:19,590 --> 00:33:18,080
always overwhelmed because i you know i

887
00:33:21,990 --> 00:33:19,600
had

888
00:33:23,029 --> 00:33:22,000
a near-death experience when i was 10 um

889
00:33:27,669 --> 00:33:23,039
my

890
00:33:29,909 --> 00:33:27,679
and

891
00:33:31,830 --> 00:33:29,919
afterwards like before that had happened

892
00:33:33,029 --> 00:33:31,840
i had been this really cute popular

893
00:33:35,430 --> 00:33:33,039
little girl

894
00:33:37,590 --> 00:33:35,440
you know and i had lots of friends and

895
00:33:38,470 --> 00:33:37,600
and everything was really good and then

896
00:33:41,350 --> 00:33:38,480
suddenly

897
00:33:44,549 --> 00:33:41,360
you know i had this experience where

898
00:33:46,310 --> 00:33:44,559
my appendix burst and i got really sick

899
00:33:48,630 --> 00:33:46,320
and then afterwards

900
00:33:50,630 --> 00:33:48,640
i was just overwhelmed by everything

901
00:33:52,549 --> 00:33:50,640
like being in a room full of people was

902
00:33:54,789 --> 00:33:52,559
just an overwhelming experience because

903
00:33:57,190 --> 00:33:54,799
i would pick up feelings and emotions

904
00:33:59,110 --> 00:33:57,200
and it was too noisy and i just couldn't

905
00:34:01,590 --> 00:33:59,120
handle it and i would do everything i

906
00:34:03,430 --> 00:34:01,600
could to get removed from the classroom

907
00:34:06,549 --> 00:34:03,440
whether i you know and you can only stay

908
00:34:09,589 --> 00:34:06,559
home with a tummy ache so often and

909
00:34:11,589 --> 00:34:09,599
it you know and so i started

910
00:34:13,430 --> 00:34:11,599
doing what i could just to get kicked

911
00:34:15,270 --> 00:34:13,440
out of class and

912
00:34:17,270 --> 00:34:15,280
it got to the point where i was allowed

913
00:34:19,430 --> 00:34:17,280
i was told well if you're sitting and

914
00:34:21,030 --> 00:34:19,440
drawing in your sketchbook and that

915
00:34:23,030 --> 00:34:21,040
gives you that little

916
00:34:26,069 --> 00:34:23,040
bubble of peace that you can kind of

917
00:34:27,430 --> 00:34:26,079
stay in the classroom

918
00:34:28,869 --> 00:34:27,440
then whenever you start to feel

919
00:34:30,149 --> 00:34:28,879
overwhelmed just take out your

920
00:34:32,869 --> 00:34:30,159
sketchbook

921
00:34:34,710 --> 00:34:32,879
and start drawing and we'll cut you some

922
00:34:36,230 --> 00:34:34,720
slack in class like that's what i was

923
00:34:38,149 --> 00:34:36,240
told by this you know the school

924
00:34:40,149 --> 00:34:38,159
guidance counselor that i could sit

925
00:34:42,310 --> 00:34:40,159
there and draw on my sketchbook

926
00:34:44,710 --> 00:34:42,320
and as long as i was keeping up with the

927
00:34:45,990 --> 00:34:44,720
homework and studies nobody would would

928
00:34:47,510 --> 00:34:46,000
bother with me

929
00:34:49,909 --> 00:34:47,520
and so there was a day when i was

930
00:34:52,389 --> 00:34:49,919
sitting there drawing in my sketchbook

931
00:34:53,829 --> 00:34:52,399
trying not to be overwhelmed

932
00:34:56,550 --> 00:34:53,839
and

933
00:34:59,430 --> 00:34:56,560
the teacher basically hit me in the face

934
00:35:01,670 --> 00:34:59,440
and threw my sketchbook across the room

935
00:35:03,829 --> 00:35:01,680
i guess i guess nobody had told this

936
00:35:06,150 --> 00:35:03,839
particular teacher that this was

937
00:35:08,470 --> 00:35:06,160
allowable behavior

938
00:35:11,910 --> 00:35:08,480
and i was just

939
00:35:13,829 --> 00:35:11,920
so shocked like i was just

940
00:35:15,990 --> 00:35:13,839
you know i felt safe in school until

941
00:35:17,270 --> 00:35:16,000
that point and then suddenly i wasn't

942
00:35:20,310 --> 00:35:17,280
safe

943
00:35:21,910 --> 00:35:20,320
and the sketchbook basically picked

944
00:35:23,670 --> 00:35:21,920
itself up and

945
00:35:25,510 --> 00:35:23,680
launched itself at the teacher and hit

946
00:35:28,470 --> 00:35:25,520
her in the back

947
00:35:31,430 --> 00:35:28,480
and after that i was just i was

948
00:35:33,510 --> 00:35:31,440
the school monster you know

949
00:35:35,109 --> 00:35:33,520
and i mean that teacher actually

950
00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:35,119
ended up

951
00:35:41,829 --> 00:35:38,770
needing some psychiatric help

952
00:35:45,829 --> 00:35:41,839
[Laughter]

953
00:35:48,310 --> 00:35:45,839
so cheryl let's make sure we we got that

954
00:35:50,950 --> 00:35:48,320
because i think it's in it it's like a

955
00:35:53,349 --> 00:35:50,960
super important story if it's real if

956
00:35:54,150 --> 00:35:53,359
it's real it's really important

957
00:35:56,710 --> 00:35:54,160
so

958
00:35:58,550 --> 00:35:56,720
how do we know that it's real well

959
00:36:00,630 --> 00:35:58,560
like i said if you go to the ions video

960
00:36:01,750 --> 00:36:00,640
that you presented you go back and you

961
00:36:03,630 --> 00:36:01,760
say hey

962
00:36:06,470 --> 00:36:03,640
here's when i had my

963
00:36:07,510 --> 00:36:06,480
appendicitis and almost died here are

964
00:36:09,910 --> 00:36:07,520
all the

965
00:36:12,310 --> 00:36:09,920
lovely letters that all my classmates

966
00:36:14,790 --> 00:36:12,320
are sending me and all the rest of that

967
00:36:16,470 --> 00:36:14,800
and then you also have

968
00:36:17,589 --> 00:36:16,480
um

969
00:36:19,910 --> 00:36:17,599
the other

970
00:36:22,550 --> 00:36:19,920
works from your school that would

971
00:36:23,990 --> 00:36:22,560
suggest that the story has

972
00:36:28,790 --> 00:36:24,000
some

973
00:36:31,270 --> 00:36:28,800
is there anything else you could add

974
00:36:32,150 --> 00:36:31,280
that would be like if let me put it this

975
00:36:33,510 --> 00:36:32,160
way

976
00:36:34,870 --> 00:36:33,520
if someone

977
00:36:35,910 --> 00:36:34,880
pushed you

978
00:36:37,349 --> 00:36:35,920
because

979
00:36:39,430 --> 00:36:37,359
one they'd have to think it through and

980
00:36:41,510 --> 00:36:39,440
think how important that story is and

981
00:36:43,589 --> 00:36:41,520
we'll explore that fully but said you

982
00:36:45,589 --> 00:36:43,599
know what i'm in

983
00:36:47,349 --> 00:36:45,599
if you can prove it

984
00:36:50,470 --> 00:36:47,359
do you think you could prove it in the

985
00:36:53,030 --> 00:36:50,480
way that people normally think about it

986
00:36:54,310 --> 00:36:53,040
i don't really see how i could because

987
00:36:56,230 --> 00:36:54,320
i mean

988
00:36:57,670 --> 00:36:56,240
could you could you find other students

989
00:36:59,190 --> 00:36:57,680
and i'm just saying hypothetical i'm not

990
00:37:00,470 --> 00:36:59,200
gonna you know i'm just saying

991
00:37:03,109 --> 00:37:00,480
hypothetically

992
00:37:05,510 --> 00:37:03,119
do you still know students who were with

993
00:37:08,630 --> 00:37:05,520
you in the class who could say i

994
00:37:10,710 --> 00:37:08,640
remember that day and i remember

995
00:37:11,510 --> 00:37:10,720
that book

996
00:37:13,670 --> 00:37:11,520
just

997
00:37:16,150 --> 00:37:13,680
picking itself up off the ground and

998
00:37:17,030 --> 00:37:16,160
harry potter style flying across the

999
00:37:20,950 --> 00:37:17,040
room

1000
00:37:22,870 --> 00:37:20,960
and i remember the commotion afterwards

1001
00:37:24,410 --> 00:37:22,880
i had one friend who saw it and she

1002
00:37:25,510 --> 00:37:24,420
passed away um

1003
00:37:27,109 --> 00:37:25,520
[Music]

1004
00:37:29,190 --> 00:37:27,119
like one friend that i still kept in

1005
00:37:32,230 --> 00:37:29,200
contact with for the most part i mean i

1006
00:37:35,030 --> 00:37:32,240
was kind of a pariah nope like nobody

1007
00:37:37,510 --> 00:37:35,040
came near me and then even i started to

1008
00:37:39,430 --> 00:37:37,520
doubt it for a while because it was just

1009
00:37:42,950 --> 00:37:39,440
driven home by the teachers this is not

1010
00:37:44,950 --> 00:37:42,960
what happened i mean i remember

1011
00:37:46,950 --> 00:37:44,960
you know my parents were

1012
00:37:48,069 --> 00:37:46,960
basically tried to push into putting me

1013
00:37:51,910 --> 00:37:48,079
on these

1014
00:37:53,589 --> 00:37:51,920
seriously nasty drugs to shut me down

1015
00:37:55,510 --> 00:37:53,599
um or i wasn't going to be allowed to

1016
00:37:56,630 --> 00:37:55,520
stay in school

1017
00:37:58,630 --> 00:37:56,640
and

1018
00:38:01,430 --> 00:37:58,640
what did they tell your parents had

1019
00:38:06,630 --> 00:38:03,430
uh they told the parents that i was a

1020
00:38:07,990 --> 00:38:06,640
bad kid and threw a book at the teacher

1021
00:38:10,069 --> 00:38:08,000
they didn't tell

1022
00:38:11,430 --> 00:38:10,079
my parents that she hit me

1023
00:38:13,910 --> 00:38:11,440
you know like that was the other thing

1024
00:38:16,310 --> 00:38:13,920
is that part of it was completely like

1025
00:38:18,310 --> 00:38:16,320
no no no the teacher did not hit her and

1026
00:38:20,950 --> 00:38:18,320
nobody in this class will say that she

1027
00:38:22,790 --> 00:38:20,960
did you know and

1028
00:38:24,069 --> 00:38:22,800
hold on for a second i i get you but

1029
00:38:25,750 --> 00:38:24,079
take that part out of the story because

1030
00:38:27,829 --> 00:38:25,760
the part of the story we care about is

1031
00:38:29,270 --> 00:38:27,839
that the i know i know is over on the

1032
00:38:31,430 --> 00:38:29,280
other side of the room

1033
00:38:32,470 --> 00:38:31,440
and they acknowledge that you threw the

1034
00:38:34,470 --> 00:38:32,480
book

1035
00:38:36,550 --> 00:38:34,480
at the teacher they're saying yeah she

1036
00:38:38,310 --> 00:38:36,560
threw the book at the teacher

1037
00:38:39,990 --> 00:38:38,320
yeah so

1038
00:38:42,069 --> 00:38:40,000
you weren't there to throw the book at

1039
00:38:43,829 --> 00:38:42,079
the teacher at least not in your

1040
00:38:47,589 --> 00:38:43,839
physical form there was part of your

1041
00:38:49,910 --> 00:38:47,599
consciousness that was there so

1042
00:38:52,710 --> 00:38:49,920
but that well and i mean i didn't think

1043
00:38:56,069 --> 00:38:52,720
it was me doing it anyway because

1044
00:38:58,069 --> 00:38:56,079
i just you know like i just thought that

1045
00:39:01,589 --> 00:38:58,079
things just moved by themselves i didn't

1046
00:39:03,589 --> 00:39:01,599
real you know i didn't

1047
00:39:05,589 --> 00:39:03,599
i didn't see it as something i was doing

1048
00:39:09,430 --> 00:39:05,599
when i was that little i just thought

1049
00:39:11,670 --> 00:39:09,440
stuff moved but get it get over it but

1050
00:39:13,510 --> 00:39:11,680
no like i i mean i had it drilled into

1051
00:39:14,950 --> 00:39:13,520
me that know that

1052
00:39:17,589 --> 00:39:14,960
this didn't happen like i said the

1053
00:39:18,630 --> 00:39:17,599
teacher needed psychiatric help so maybe

1054
00:39:22,310 --> 00:39:18,640
she

1055
00:39:23,589 --> 00:39:22,320
book moved

1056
00:39:24,870 --> 00:39:23,599
because she didn't want me in her

1057
00:39:28,390 --> 00:39:24,880
classroom

1058
00:39:29,750 --> 00:39:28,400
um i know that i was taken out of class

1059
00:39:34,470 --> 00:39:29,760
every

1060
00:39:35,829 --> 00:39:34,480
years and sent a special testing

1061
00:39:36,790 --> 00:39:35,839
that did nothing

1062
00:39:39,190 --> 00:39:36,800
but

1063
00:39:41,270 --> 00:39:39,200
you know make me feel even more like a

1064
00:39:42,630 --> 00:39:41,280
weirdo because everyone thought that

1065
00:39:44,470 --> 00:39:42,640
there must be something really wrong

1066
00:39:46,230 --> 00:39:44,480
with me that i had to go

1067
00:39:50,310 --> 00:39:46,240
to the room with the two-way mirrors

1068
00:39:52,870 --> 00:39:51,190
so

1069
00:39:55,349 --> 00:39:52,880
what makes this

1070
00:39:58,230 --> 00:39:55,359
so what i push that good enough

1071
00:39:59,750 --> 00:39:58,240
so again what makes this thing

1072
00:40:01,910 --> 00:39:59,760
interesting

1073
00:40:03,270 --> 00:40:01,920
in the scientific realm that we're going

1074
00:40:04,790 --> 00:40:03,280
to talk about

1075
00:40:06,309 --> 00:40:04,800
is that eventually you wind up in a

1076
00:40:08,829 --> 00:40:06,319
laboratory where there's

1077
00:40:10,950 --> 00:40:08,839
like quote-unquote real scientists

1078
00:40:12,790 --> 00:40:10,960
which i don't know where we want to go

1079
00:40:15,510 --> 00:40:12,800
with that but there's people who are

1080
00:40:18,470 --> 00:40:15,520
saying okay let's see if you really can

1081
00:40:20,309 --> 00:40:18,480
do this pk stuff which in and of itself

1082
00:40:23,510 --> 00:40:20,319
would add

1083
00:40:25,990 --> 00:40:23,520
validation to your earlier story unless

1084
00:40:28,390 --> 00:40:26,000
we think that you just this is the only

1085
00:40:30,710 --> 00:40:28,400
thing you can do is you know spin wheels

1086
00:40:32,790 --> 00:40:30,720
inside of glasses that's what god has

1087
00:40:34,630 --> 00:40:32,800
put you on earth to do

1088
00:40:35,910 --> 00:40:34,640
so

1089
00:40:38,390 --> 00:40:35,920
tell folks

1090
00:40:41,430 --> 00:40:38,400
again in a way that they would

1091
00:40:43,349 --> 00:40:41,440
make it really believable to him

1092
00:40:46,069 --> 00:40:43,359
in a very matter-of-fact way

1093
00:40:48,870 --> 00:40:46,079
why we should why we should believe that

1094
00:40:51,109 --> 00:40:48,880
you really were in a laboratory and you

1095
00:40:53,190 --> 00:40:51,119
really did spin a wheel that was under a

1096
00:40:55,109 --> 00:40:53,200
glass

1097
00:40:56,870 --> 00:40:55,119
can i have a two-minute break sorry i

1098
00:40:58,710 --> 00:40:56,880
apologize absolutely

1099
00:41:00,470 --> 00:40:58,720
sorry i just need a two-minute break and

1100
00:41:02,390 --> 00:41:00,480
i'll be right back

1101
00:41:06,710 --> 00:41:02,400
what kind of dog is that

1102
00:41:08,870 --> 00:41:06,720
um he's alassa apso

1103
00:41:11,510 --> 00:41:08,880
so apparently the the tradition is that

1104
00:41:14,069 --> 00:41:11,520
tibetan monks if they were

1105
00:41:15,670 --> 00:41:14,079
too goofy and uh didn't reincarnate the

1106
00:41:18,309 --> 00:41:15,680
way they were supposed to they'd come

1107
00:41:20,870 --> 00:41:18,319
back as lassa apsos

1108
00:41:22,950 --> 00:41:20,880
that's a great story that's a great

1109
00:41:25,030 --> 00:41:22,960
story that that's why you're that's why

1110
00:41:25,910 --> 00:41:25,040
it's considered really bad form to sell

1111
00:41:27,190 --> 00:41:25,920
one

1112
00:41:28,710 --> 00:41:27,200
um

1113
00:41:31,750 --> 00:41:28,720
that the original ones that came to

1114
00:41:34,870 --> 00:41:31,760
north america were gifts from the uh

1115
00:41:37,109 --> 00:41:34,880
from the dalai lama

1116
00:41:38,390 --> 00:41:37,119
yeah

1117
00:41:40,470 --> 00:41:38,400
because they they're thought to be

1118
00:41:44,150 --> 00:41:40,480
reincarnated monks that didn't take

1119
00:41:46,309 --> 00:41:44,160
their studies seriously

1120
00:41:48,069 --> 00:41:46,319
god

1121
00:41:51,030 --> 00:41:48,079
i mean you know we could spend an hour

1122
00:41:53,670 --> 00:41:51,040
talking on all that because it's like

1123
00:41:56,870 --> 00:41:53,680
now i know in a way that's again this

1124
00:41:59,430 --> 00:41:56,880
intersection of science and spirituality

1125
00:42:00,950 --> 00:41:59,440
and what we want out of science

1126
00:42:03,510 --> 00:42:00,960
and then

1127
00:42:05,109 --> 00:42:03,520
what we don't get out of science

1128
00:42:07,430 --> 00:42:05,119
you know so

1129
00:42:09,270 --> 00:42:07,440
we want to some way

1130
00:42:10,790 --> 00:42:09,280
know whether there's anything to that

1131
00:42:12,950 --> 00:42:10,800
story at all

1132
00:42:15,349 --> 00:42:12,960
right i mean we do that's kind of like a

1133
00:42:16,790 --> 00:42:15,359
pretty incredible story

1134
00:42:19,349 --> 00:42:16,800
and when science comes back and goes

1135
00:42:21,589 --> 00:42:19,359
well you know probably not for these

1136
00:42:23,190 --> 00:42:21,599
reasons and they're verifiable

1137
00:42:24,790 --> 00:42:23,200
then you're like great

1138
00:42:26,069 --> 00:42:24,800
but then when science goes one step

1139
00:42:27,589 --> 00:42:26,079
further and says

1140
00:42:29,270 --> 00:42:27,599
yeah because we're all

1141
00:42:31,190 --> 00:42:29,280
just our brain and there's nothing more

1142
00:42:32,630 --> 00:42:31,200
and you can't really love

1143
00:42:34,870 --> 00:42:32,640
that love that you feel for that dog

1144
00:42:35,990 --> 00:42:34,880
that isn't really real i mean

1145
00:42:39,270 --> 00:42:36,000
yeah

1146
00:42:41,349 --> 00:42:39,280
not to completely switch gears but

1147
00:42:42,710 --> 00:42:41,359
and now let's just continue

1148
00:42:47,430 --> 00:42:42,720
continue with the story because where i

1149
00:42:51,109 --> 00:42:50,230
you know what i'm out of me

1150
00:42:53,990 --> 00:42:51,119
well

1151
00:42:55,829 --> 00:42:54,000
yeah i know i know i'm difficult

1152
00:42:58,710 --> 00:42:55,839
no i don't i don't see it that way i

1153
00:43:01,510 --> 00:42:58,720
don't see it that way i i i don't think

1154
00:43:03,349 --> 00:43:01,520
you're difficult at all i think you're

1155
00:43:05,190 --> 00:43:03,359
incredibly open

1156
00:43:07,670 --> 00:43:05,200
and incredibly

1157
00:43:09,990 --> 00:43:07,680
brave and people say that a lot and it

1158
00:43:10,790 --> 00:43:10,000
can mean a lot of different things

1159
00:43:14,069 --> 00:43:10,800
but

1160
00:43:17,109 --> 00:43:14,079
you've had a lot of experiences that

1161
00:43:19,589 --> 00:43:17,119
similar folks are just not able to

1162
00:43:21,109 --> 00:43:19,599
process and they just run from

1163
00:43:22,069 --> 00:43:21,119
completely

1164
00:43:24,069 --> 00:43:22,079
and

1165
00:43:25,430 --> 00:43:24,079
you are consistently throughout your

1166
00:43:27,750 --> 00:43:25,440
life

1167
00:43:30,790 --> 00:43:27,760
running into the fire you know there's

1168
00:43:33,430 --> 00:43:30,800
the fire and you're like okay

1169
00:43:34,710 --> 00:43:33,440
let's run in there and see what happens

1170
00:43:36,630 --> 00:43:34,720
because that's what happens when you go

1171
00:43:38,950 --> 00:43:36,640
to these labs because the your

1172
00:43:40,790 --> 00:43:38,960
experience in these labs in these

1173
00:43:43,030 --> 00:43:40,800
scilabs where they're going to do the

1174
00:43:44,710 --> 00:43:43,040
men that stare at goats and let's be

1175
00:43:46,870 --> 00:43:44,720
clear because we touched on this last

1176
00:43:47,990 --> 00:43:46,880
time and people hear it and again it's

1177
00:43:49,910 --> 00:43:48,000
one of those things that doesn't fit

1178
00:43:51,510 --> 00:43:49,920
into their paradigm and they just

1179
00:43:53,030 --> 00:43:51,520
blow it off but

1180
00:43:56,230 --> 00:43:53,040
this is a lot of the

1181
00:43:58,950 --> 00:43:56,240
abc agencies you know naval intelligence

1182
00:44:01,270 --> 00:43:58,960
cia military intelligence

1183
00:44:05,670 --> 00:44:01,280
it would be irresponsible for them not

1184
00:44:09,430 --> 00:44:05,680
to understand pk because if you can spin

1185
00:44:12,309 --> 00:44:09,440
a wheel under a glass then who's to say

1186
00:44:14,710 --> 00:44:12,319
you can't stop the heart of vladimir

1187
00:44:17,510 --> 00:44:14,720
putin in russia

1188
00:44:20,150 --> 00:44:17,520
it is that is the that is men who stare

1189
00:44:21,829 --> 00:44:20,160
at goats that is what that movie's about

1190
00:44:23,670 --> 00:44:21,839
and that movie is about what really

1191
00:44:26,230 --> 00:44:23,680
happened in mkl's program where they

1192
00:44:28,870 --> 00:44:26,240
said hey can this guy stare at a goat

1193
00:44:31,349 --> 00:44:28,880
and make the goat's heart stop so it

1194
00:44:36,470 --> 00:44:31,359
would be

1195
00:44:38,630 --> 00:44:36,480
understand

1196
00:44:41,510 --> 00:44:38,640
whether that could be done to us which

1197
00:44:44,790 --> 00:44:41,520
is always the excuse for us to weaponize

1198
00:44:47,750 --> 00:44:44,800
it and do it to other people so when you

1199
00:44:49,589 --> 00:44:47,760
are walking into those labs

1200
00:44:52,069 --> 00:44:49,599
that is

1201
00:44:55,190 --> 00:44:52,079
part of the agenda and the way that that

1202
00:44:56,309 --> 00:44:55,200
game works is some of those people in

1203
00:44:59,270 --> 00:44:56,319
the lab

1204
00:45:02,150 --> 00:44:59,280
know that a very very very small number

1205
00:45:03,510 --> 00:45:02,160
know it at some level most of them don't

1206
00:45:05,510 --> 00:45:03,520
and they're just

1207
00:45:07,349 --> 00:45:05,520
doing what they think is good curious

1208
00:45:10,470 --> 00:45:07,359
research which it is

1209
00:45:13,430 --> 00:45:10,480
but there is always that shadow

1210
00:45:15,109 --> 00:45:13,440
in that um now you don't realize that

1211
00:45:17,589 --> 00:45:15,119
i'm sure you didn't realize that at the

1212
00:45:19,510 --> 00:45:17,599
time you were just

1213
00:45:22,069 --> 00:45:19,520
the stuff was happening you want to know

1214
00:45:26,230 --> 00:45:22,079
as it happened but you have at this

1215
00:45:28,870 --> 00:45:26,240
point a long experience many times being

1216
00:45:31,109 --> 00:45:28,880
invited to these labs around the world

1217
00:45:33,349 --> 00:45:31,119
and some of them you don't go to because

1218
00:45:36,790 --> 00:45:33,359
you're not totally comfortable with

1219
00:45:38,630 --> 00:45:36,800
yeah and then it's derek goats thing

1220
00:45:40,790 --> 00:45:38,640
so when i say it's not so much like

1221
00:45:43,270 --> 00:45:40,800
you're difficult to talk to no to the

1222
00:45:44,790 --> 00:45:43,280
contrary it's like you're probably one

1223
00:45:47,190 --> 00:45:44,800
of the most important people in the

1224
00:45:50,470 --> 00:45:47,200
world to talk to about this stuff that's

1225
00:45:52,550 --> 00:45:50,480
the difficult part is we could explore

1226
00:45:54,470 --> 00:45:52,560
this like in a million different angles

1227
00:45:55,750 --> 00:45:54,480
and all of them are super relevant super

1228
00:45:56,870 --> 00:45:55,760
important

1229
00:45:59,750 --> 00:45:56,880
on uh

1230
00:46:02,309 --> 00:45:59,760
geopolitical parapolitical scientific

1231
00:46:03,190 --> 00:46:02,319
spiritual angle so i'm just struggle

1232
00:46:05,349 --> 00:46:03,200
with

1233
00:46:09,030 --> 00:46:05,359
what do i ask next

1234
00:46:10,710 --> 00:46:09,040
so tell us about pk in the lab

1235
00:46:12,829 --> 00:46:10,720
um well

1236
00:46:14,630 --> 00:46:12,839
you know

1237
00:46:22,550 --> 00:46:14,640
sometimes

1238
00:46:24,790 --> 00:46:22,560
i think one of the experiences i had was

1239
00:46:27,589 --> 00:46:24,800
at the rhine research center

1240
00:46:29,430 --> 00:46:27,599
and the first day i got there one of the

1241
00:46:30,230 --> 00:46:29,440
people that i was going to be working

1242
00:46:31,910 --> 00:46:30,240
with

1243
00:46:34,230 --> 00:46:31,920
and i'd never met him before and i

1244
00:46:36,710 --> 00:46:34,240
didn't know him beforehand i mean i went

1245
00:46:38,950 --> 00:46:36,720
there to work with robert and suzanne

1246
00:46:40,710 --> 00:46:38,960
may and they're lovely people so working

1247
00:46:42,630 --> 00:46:40,720
with them was great and i think the

1248
00:46:44,309 --> 00:46:42,640
first time i went to the rhine research

1249
00:46:45,430 --> 00:46:44,319
center it was just with them for the

1250
00:46:46,870 --> 00:46:45,440
most part

1251
00:46:49,109 --> 00:46:46,880
and that was really a positive

1252
00:46:50,790 --> 00:46:49,119
experience the second time i went there

1253
00:46:53,190 --> 00:46:50,800
were some other people that kind of

1254
00:46:55,270 --> 00:46:53,200
attached themselves to it and one of

1255
00:46:57,510 --> 00:46:55,280
which on on the very first day i was

1256
00:47:01,750 --> 00:46:57,520
there told me that

1257
00:47:04,790 --> 00:47:03,430
and it was kind of lit you know and that

1258
00:47:06,470 --> 00:47:04,800
was not

1259
00:47:08,870 --> 00:47:06,480
not you know and it's like okay well

1260
00:47:10,470 --> 00:47:08,880
even if you think that do you really

1261
00:47:13,750 --> 00:47:10,480
want to

1262
00:47:16,870 --> 00:47:13,760
tell the person who's come here

1263
00:47:19,349 --> 00:47:16,880
um you know spending her time

1264
00:47:21,030 --> 00:47:19,359
uh coming to this laboratory to do some

1265
00:47:23,510 --> 00:47:21,040
work and you're gonna tell her that

1266
00:47:26,069 --> 00:47:23,520
basically everyone like her is

1267
00:47:27,670 --> 00:47:26,079
a charlatan

1268
00:47:29,910 --> 00:47:27,680
see like even there there's there's so

1269
00:47:31,109 --> 00:47:29,920
much to to talk about there so first

1270
00:47:33,589 --> 00:47:31,119
break it down

1271
00:47:34,710 --> 00:47:33,599
ryan research institute

1272
00:47:36,829 --> 00:47:34,720
is

1273
00:47:39,829 --> 00:47:36,839
one of the first and most famous

1274
00:47:42,630 --> 00:47:39,839
parapsychology research institutes

1275
00:47:43,829 --> 00:47:42,640
in the world it's spun off from duke

1276
00:47:45,910 --> 00:47:43,839
university

1277
00:47:48,790 --> 00:47:45,920
and this guy ryan what was his first

1278
00:47:49,589 --> 00:47:48,800
name or initials he always

1279
00:47:52,069 --> 00:47:49,599
anyway

1280
00:47:54,230 --> 00:47:52,079
yeah jb exactly and they did a bunch of

1281
00:47:55,829 --> 00:47:54,240
these experiments and one one of the

1282
00:47:57,270 --> 00:47:55,839
experiments they're best known for is

1283
00:47:59,430 --> 00:47:57,280
the kind of zener cards you know where

1284
00:48:01,030 --> 00:47:59,440
they have the five you know it i'm

1285
00:48:02,790 --> 00:48:01,040
explaining it to people you know you've

1286
00:48:05,030 --> 00:48:02,800
seen they have the five different cards

1287
00:48:07,270 --> 00:48:05,040
the moon the star this and that and one

1288
00:48:10,150 --> 00:48:07,280
person holds the card and says see if

1289
00:48:12,710 --> 00:48:10,160
they can telepathically communicate it

1290
00:48:15,750 --> 00:48:12,720
to this other person now if you go and

1291
00:48:17,670 --> 00:48:15,760
look at that research which in a way is

1292
00:48:19,030 --> 00:48:17,680
kind of related to

1293
00:48:20,549 --> 00:48:19,040
the work that

1294
00:48:23,510 --> 00:48:20,559
shirley is telling us about

1295
00:48:26,150 --> 00:48:23,520
psychokinesis is different but it's all

1296
00:48:28,950 --> 00:48:26,160
in this category of outside time space

1297
00:48:30,950 --> 00:48:28,960
outside of the mind-body limitation that

1298
00:48:33,109 --> 00:48:30,960
we normally associate with the brain so

1299
00:48:34,470 --> 00:48:33,119
anyways they did this experiment

1300
00:48:36,069 --> 00:48:34,480
successfully and it's not a hard

1301
00:48:38,309 --> 00:48:36,079
experiment to control you know like

1302
00:48:40,390 --> 00:48:38,319
you'll this is all this stuff has been

1303
00:48:41,510 --> 00:48:40,400
polluted by the phony

1304
00:48:43,910 --> 00:48:41,520
skeptical

1305
00:48:45,349 --> 00:48:43,920
which is an operation kind of thing that

1306
00:48:47,030 --> 00:48:45,359
say oh my god you know there's so much

1307
00:48:48,390 --> 00:48:47,040
room for cheating well there's not you

1308
00:48:50,309 --> 00:48:48,400
just put people in

1309
00:48:51,910 --> 00:48:50,319
two different floors of two different

1310
00:48:55,109 --> 00:48:51,920
buildings like they did at the ryan

1311
00:48:57,190 --> 00:48:55,119
institute uh uh way back in the day and

1312
00:48:58,549 --> 00:48:57,200
there's no opportunity for for cheating

1313
00:49:02,790 --> 00:48:58,559
and what they did in one of their

1314
00:49:06,230 --> 00:49:02,800
experiments thurman they had 143

1315
00:49:07,910 --> 00:49:06,240
consecutive successful trials so one

1316
00:49:09,990 --> 00:49:07,920
person was able to say

1317
00:49:11,510 --> 00:49:10,000
okay i see a moon

1318
00:49:12,950 --> 00:49:11,520
and then the other person on the other

1319
00:49:14,710 --> 00:49:12,960
in another room

1320
00:49:16,950 --> 00:49:14,720
in another building

1321
00:49:18,549 --> 00:49:16,960
was able to say

1322
00:49:22,470 --> 00:49:18,559
i think it's a moon

1323
00:49:25,430 --> 00:49:22,480
and they got it right 143

1324
00:49:27,589 --> 00:49:25,440
times in a row so there's a lot of this

1325
00:49:30,069 --> 00:49:27,599
kind of research that's buried in these

1326
00:49:32,150 --> 00:49:30,079
walls and then it's interesting that

1327
00:49:33,190 --> 00:49:32,160
they bring you out there they've done

1328
00:49:35,589 --> 00:49:33,200
other

1329
00:49:37,750 --> 00:49:35,599
demonstrations of pk the ones i've seen

1330
00:49:39,349 --> 00:49:37,760
online other people can find it where

1331
00:49:41,270 --> 00:49:39,359
they have it more kind of from a

1332
00:49:43,270 --> 00:49:41,280
technology standpoint they have this

1333
00:49:45,109 --> 00:49:43,280
machine that people can

1334
00:49:47,829 --> 00:49:45,119
show that it generates and it moves

1335
00:49:51,349 --> 00:49:47,839
across the room again pk and then they

1336
00:49:52,630 --> 00:49:51,359
have you so i think uh ed and suzanne

1337
00:49:53,750 --> 00:49:52,640
may are probably better known for

1338
00:49:56,309 --> 00:49:53,760
near-death experience but they're

1339
00:49:58,870 --> 00:49:56,319
definitely well qualified in

1340
00:50:00,950 --> 00:49:58,880
parapsychology research and psy research

1341
00:50:02,630 --> 00:50:00,960
and that's why they're at ryan and they

1342
00:50:04,950 --> 00:50:02,640
know all this stuff and then the last

1343
00:50:06,630 --> 00:50:04,960
thing i can't resist commenting on is

1344
00:50:09,030 --> 00:50:06,640
there is always this

1345
00:50:11,349 --> 00:50:09,040
infiltration kind of counterintelligence

1346
00:50:13,510 --> 00:50:11,359
thing where in these places that are

1347
00:50:15,589 --> 00:50:13,520
supposed to be studying one thing you

1348
00:50:17,910 --> 00:50:15,599
have this person that's

1349
00:50:21,030 --> 00:50:17,920
i don't know why they're there you know

1350
00:50:24,230 --> 00:50:21,040
to it like you said it's not even

1351
00:50:26,390 --> 00:50:24,240
it's not even honest science to say

1352
00:50:29,510 --> 00:50:26,400
hey priori i think you're fake i mean

1353
00:50:31,750 --> 00:50:29,520
that's not being objective in any way so

1354
00:50:34,470 --> 00:50:31,760
that's the you know rupert cheldrick

1355
00:50:36,790 --> 00:50:34,480
richard wiseman like that's not adding

1356
00:50:38,710 --> 00:50:36,800
to it that's just

1357
00:50:41,829 --> 00:50:38,720
doing something else that we can't

1358
00:50:43,430 --> 00:50:41,839
understand inside of that but so tell us

1359
00:50:46,150 --> 00:50:43,440
specifically

1360
00:50:48,549 --> 00:50:46,160
what happened at rhine what did they

1361
00:50:50,230 --> 00:50:48,559
want you to do was it spinning a glass

1362
00:50:52,069 --> 00:50:50,240
spinning a wheel inside of a glass was

1363
00:50:53,750 --> 00:50:52,079
it something else how do they set up

1364
00:50:56,309 --> 00:50:53,760
that experiment how do they control for

1365
00:50:58,069 --> 00:50:56,319
it how do they do the rest

1366
00:51:00,790 --> 00:50:58,079
well the first time i was there with

1367
00:51:02,470 --> 00:51:00,800
robert suzanne most of what we did was

1368
00:51:03,829 --> 00:51:02,480
basically spinning the pinwheel inside

1369
00:51:05,109 --> 00:51:03,839
the little jar

1370
00:51:09,430 --> 00:51:05,119
and

1371
00:51:11,270 --> 00:51:09,440
should have read up because we did a lot

1372
00:51:13,430 --> 00:51:11,280
of different experiments with that where

1373
00:51:15,030 --> 00:51:13,440
they tried different types of

1374
00:51:16,870 --> 00:51:15,040
sensors to see if they could see

1375
00:51:18,230 --> 00:51:16,880
something else going on while it was

1376
00:51:19,349 --> 00:51:18,240
moving you know

1377
00:51:21,349 --> 00:51:19,359
um

1378
00:51:22,870 --> 00:51:21,359
well to just uh again because we've

1379
00:51:24,230 --> 00:51:22,880
talked about a bunch of times people can

1380
00:51:27,109 --> 00:51:24,240
find these

1381
00:51:28,950 --> 00:51:27,119
uh videos on youtube if they look really

1382
00:51:30,790 --> 00:51:28,960
carefully i think they can find

1383
00:51:33,109 --> 00:51:30,800
one or two of your videos are up there

1384
00:51:36,549 --> 00:51:33,119
are they probably i think if you go to

1385
00:51:39,510 --> 00:51:36,559
it's robert mays not ed mays i'm sorry

1386
00:51:42,790 --> 00:51:39,520
yeah okay different people

1387
00:51:43,990 --> 00:51:42,800
but uh robert and suzanne and uh they've

1388
00:51:45,990 --> 00:51:44,000
got

1389
00:51:47,910 --> 00:51:46,000
oh i'm trying to think of the name of

1390
00:51:50,150 --> 00:51:47,920
if you look at robert's interviews on

1391
00:51:51,510 --> 00:51:50,160
skeptico i'm sure his website's listed

1392
00:51:52,790 --> 00:51:51,520
there somewhere

1393
00:51:55,190 --> 00:51:52,800
okay

1394
00:51:58,630 --> 00:51:55,200
because dave

1395
00:52:01,109 --> 00:51:58,640
so we're talking about something that

1396
00:52:03,510 --> 00:52:01,119
number one people don't know or if they

1397
00:52:07,109 --> 00:52:03,520
do know they've seen it in kind of a

1398
00:52:09,670 --> 00:52:07,119
david blainey kind of magic fake way and

1399
00:52:11,510 --> 00:52:09,680
there's a bunch of fake videos on

1400
00:52:13,589 --> 00:52:11,520
the youtube entertainment videos on the

1401
00:52:15,349 --> 00:52:13,599
youtube side on youtube saying isn't

1402
00:52:17,270 --> 00:52:15,359
this cool then you put a little pin and

1403
00:52:18,710 --> 00:52:17,280
you put a little wheel on it then they

1404
00:52:20,390 --> 00:52:18,720
put a jar but you can't really see the

1405
00:52:23,109 --> 00:52:20,400
type you know there's all ways to fake

1406
00:52:25,270 --> 00:52:23,119
it but if you bring it into a lab it's a

1407
00:52:27,670 --> 00:52:25,280
very very easy experiment to control

1408
00:52:30,309 --> 00:52:27,680
right it really is oh yeah

1409
00:52:32,390 --> 00:52:30,319
because it's like well if it's if it's

1410
00:52:34,230 --> 00:52:32,400
inside a closed container

1411
00:52:36,230 --> 00:52:34,240
i'm not blowing on it

1412
00:52:38,150 --> 00:52:36,240
and you can check to see if it can like

1413
00:52:41,109 --> 00:52:38,160
you can take a

1414
00:52:44,150 --> 00:52:41,119
a hair dryer and blow air at it and you

1415
00:52:47,829 --> 00:52:44,160
can see well it's a close container

1416
00:52:51,030 --> 00:52:47,839
you can you can uh

1417
00:52:53,190 --> 00:52:51,040
rub it with static reducers to get the

1418
00:52:55,349 --> 00:52:53,200
static electricity gone

1419
00:52:57,829 --> 00:52:55,359
um you know the second time i went back

1420
00:52:59,510 --> 00:52:57,839
i actually brought um an ugly wheel and

1421
00:53:01,589 --> 00:52:59,520
they had they had actually purchased

1422
00:53:02,950 --> 00:53:01,599
their own ugly wheel because they wanted

1423
00:53:05,109 --> 00:53:02,960
me to

1424
00:53:07,270 --> 00:53:05,119
use a device what's an ugly wheel and

1425
00:53:09,589 --> 00:53:07,280
why did dean rayden tell you to use it

1426
00:53:11,829 --> 00:53:09,599
okay well dean told me to use it because

1427
00:53:13,990 --> 00:53:11,839
he said that they had one in their lab

1428
00:53:16,309 --> 00:53:14,000
and no one had ever been able to get it

1429
00:53:18,870 --> 00:53:16,319
to spin when it was in a covered

1430
00:53:21,430 --> 00:53:18,880
container

1431
00:53:25,349 --> 00:53:21,440
and what is an ugly wheel

1432
00:53:27,349 --> 00:53:25,359
it's basically a very fancy pinwheel

1433
00:53:30,309 --> 00:53:27,359
it's basically it and it's supposed to

1434
00:53:33,349 --> 00:53:30,319
be controlled for for things like static

1435
00:53:36,230 --> 00:53:33,359
electricity and and um

1436
00:53:38,630 --> 00:53:36,240
oh what do you call it uh con convection

1437
00:53:41,510 --> 00:53:38,640
currents things like that but but

1438
00:53:44,870 --> 00:53:41,520
basically if it's underneath

1439
00:53:46,710 --> 00:53:44,880
underneath that like you know a glass or

1440
00:53:48,390 --> 00:53:46,720
whatever if it's under if it's this in a

1441
00:53:51,270 --> 00:53:48,400
sealed container that

1442
00:53:52,950 --> 00:53:51,280
kind of makes it difficult dean says

1443
00:53:55,430 --> 00:53:52,960
they'd never had anyone who could move

1444
00:53:57,270 --> 00:53:55,440
it under a container so which is which

1445
00:53:59,190 --> 00:53:57,280
is going to be interesting as we

1446
00:54:00,230 --> 00:53:59,200
as we go into this four and a half hour

1447
00:54:01,750 --> 00:54:00,240
interview

1448
00:54:04,390 --> 00:54:01,760
i'm so sorry

1449
00:54:06,790 --> 00:54:04,400
no no no it's i'm i'm

1450
00:54:09,349 --> 00:54:06,800
i'm apologizing because i'm not gonna be

1451
00:54:11,750 --> 00:54:09,359
able to stop but here's the reason that

1452
00:54:14,309 --> 00:54:11,760
that i would add to everything that you

1453
00:54:16,390 --> 00:54:14,319
said it's maybe obvious for some people

1454
00:54:19,270 --> 00:54:16,400
but not for others the other thing i can

1455
00:54:21,670 --> 00:54:19,280
do is i can take the ugly wheel i can

1456
00:54:23,270 --> 00:54:21,680
put it down on the table i can put it or

1457
00:54:25,990 --> 00:54:23,280
i can put it inside of a sealed glass

1458
00:54:27,030 --> 00:54:26,000
container and i can videotape it for a

1459
00:54:29,510 --> 00:54:27,040
week

1460
00:54:32,470 --> 00:54:29,520
and nothing ever changes during the

1461
00:54:34,870 --> 00:54:32,480
sunrise sunset the lights going on all

1462
00:54:36,230 --> 00:54:34,880
it never moves and now i bring in this

1463
00:54:39,030 --> 00:54:36,240
person

1464
00:54:39,829 --> 00:54:39,040
cherylee who has said that she can do

1465
00:54:41,990 --> 00:54:39,839
this

1466
00:54:43,910 --> 00:54:42,000
and she makes it happen i said oh that's

1467
00:54:46,069 --> 00:54:43,920
interesting now i remove her from the

1468
00:54:48,150 --> 00:54:46,079
whoop from the room and i can let it go

1469
00:54:50,630 --> 00:54:48,160
for another week and it never moves and

1470
00:54:52,630 --> 00:54:50,640
i bring her back in and i can do it this

1471
00:54:54,549 --> 00:54:52,640
would be a way of having a very

1472
00:54:56,069 --> 00:54:54,559
controlled experiment and it's kind of

1473
00:54:57,030 --> 00:54:56,079
along the lines of what dean raiden has

1474
00:54:58,470 --> 00:54:57,040
done

1475
00:55:00,950 --> 00:54:58,480
and then you'd say

1476
00:55:03,990 --> 00:55:00,960
okay i have my

1477
00:55:06,789 --> 00:55:04,000
control time when nothing is happening

1478
00:55:09,510 --> 00:55:06,799
and nothing does happen and then i have

1479
00:55:11,589 --> 00:55:09,520
my effect time when this person who

1480
00:55:14,390 --> 00:55:11,599
claims to be able to introduce this

1481
00:55:16,950 --> 00:55:14,400
effect is doing it and it's measurable

1482
00:55:19,589 --> 00:55:16,960
that's very simple science and it's very

1483
00:55:22,150 --> 00:55:19,599
powerful science and that's what they

1484
00:55:23,670 --> 00:55:22,160
did right

1485
00:55:25,670 --> 00:55:23,680
well yeah and i mean they did other

1486
00:55:28,069 --> 00:55:25,680
controls as well i mean actually the

1487
00:55:30,309 --> 00:55:28,079
really the skeptical guy at one point he

1488
00:55:31,270 --> 00:55:30,319
put the ugly wheel

1489
00:55:33,990 --> 00:55:31,280
um

1490
00:55:35,910 --> 00:55:34,000
basically on tinfoil that was grounded

1491
00:55:38,150 --> 00:55:35,920
because he he was convinced that it was

1492
00:55:40,309 --> 00:55:38,160
just electricity no no but this is funny

1493
00:55:42,309 --> 00:55:40,319
this part is really funny so what he did

1494
00:55:43,750 --> 00:55:42,319
was he was randomly

1495
00:55:44,950 --> 00:55:43,760
um

1496
00:55:48,549 --> 00:55:44,960
connecting

1497
00:55:51,510 --> 00:55:48,559
that it was grounded and then

1498
00:55:53,990 --> 00:55:51,520
unconnecting it and asking me to say

1499
00:55:55,670 --> 00:55:54,000
if it's easier or harder to move the

1500
00:55:58,150 --> 00:55:55,680
little wheel around

1501
00:56:00,470 --> 00:55:58,160
and i could tell him every single time

1502
00:56:03,030 --> 00:56:00,480
he unconnected it because it worked the

1503
00:56:05,190 --> 00:56:03,040
opposite of the way he decided it should

1504
00:56:07,829 --> 00:56:05,200
he said that when when it was grounded

1505
00:56:09,750 --> 00:56:07,839
it should it should be you know harder

1506
00:56:13,190 --> 00:56:09,760
to move and it was actually easier like

1507
00:56:19,510 --> 00:56:15,430
and which really annoyed him and and his

1508
00:56:22,390 --> 00:56:19,520
and because he was so convinced of

1509
00:56:25,270 --> 00:56:22,400
his take on the science his explanation

1510
00:56:27,510 --> 00:56:25,280
was is that i psychically knew when he

1511
00:56:30,549 --> 00:56:27,520
was connecting and unconnecting the

1512
00:56:32,710 --> 00:56:30,559
grounding device and so that it was just

1513
00:56:34,230 --> 00:56:32,720
me being an evil psychic and telling him

1514
00:56:36,069 --> 00:56:34,240
the opposite of what was actually

1515
00:56:38,069 --> 00:56:36,079
happening just because i wanted to piss

1516
00:56:40,470 --> 00:56:38,079
him off which was

1517
00:56:46,950 --> 00:56:40,480
so so he said i was a hundred percent on

1518
00:56:51,750 --> 00:56:49,190
that's that's just an amazing story

1519
00:56:52,950 --> 00:56:51,760
because it really gets to

1520
00:56:54,950 --> 00:56:52,960
the issue

1521
00:56:56,710 --> 00:56:54,960
if you want confirmation of that he even

1522
00:56:59,030 --> 00:56:56,720
talks about that in a video that the

1523
00:57:00,789 --> 00:56:59,040
rhine research center put up so

1524
00:57:03,670 --> 00:57:00,799
so it's not just me saying it he

1525
00:57:06,069 --> 00:57:03,680
actually does admit to it in a video

1526
00:57:07,670 --> 00:57:06,079
i i want to see that video

1527
00:57:10,230 --> 00:57:07,680
because

1528
00:57:14,789 --> 00:57:12,870
this this kind of does kind of jump us

1529
00:57:16,630 --> 00:57:14,799
into the conversation that we're going

1530
00:57:18,789 --> 00:57:16,640
to have about the interview that i had

1531
00:57:20,069 --> 00:57:18,799
with dean raiden

1532
00:57:22,710 --> 00:57:20,079
because

1533
00:57:26,230 --> 00:57:22,720
this is point one is the i wouldn't

1534
00:57:29,829 --> 00:57:26,240
believe it even if it was true

1535
00:57:31,270 --> 00:57:29,839
phenomenon and you can hear it i first

1536
00:57:32,789 --> 00:57:31,280
heard it from

1537
00:57:34,789 --> 00:57:32,799
rupert cheldrick he tells the story

1538
00:57:37,589 --> 00:57:34,799
beautifully where he's doing a

1539
00:57:39,430 --> 00:57:37,599
presentation to the royal society in

1540
00:57:41,829 --> 00:57:39,440
england about his

1541
00:57:42,870 --> 00:57:41,839
amazing science and

1542
00:57:45,910 --> 00:57:42,880
a guy

1543
00:57:48,710 --> 00:57:45,920
one of the royal society guys in england

1544
00:57:51,270 --> 00:57:48,720
oxford cambridge actually where

1545
00:57:52,870 --> 00:57:51,280
rupert got his education

1546
00:57:55,510 --> 00:57:52,880
stands up

1547
00:57:58,069 --> 00:57:55,520
turns his back to the presentation to

1548
00:58:01,030 --> 00:57:58,079
the data that's being presented and says

1549
00:58:02,230 --> 00:58:01,040
i wouldn't believe it even if it was

1550
00:58:03,990 --> 00:58:02,240
true

1551
00:58:06,150 --> 00:58:04,000
and

1552
00:58:09,030 --> 00:58:06,160
this is something that we're familiar

1553
00:58:11,190 --> 00:58:09,040
with on a kind of personal level in

1554
00:58:13,510 --> 00:58:11,200
terms of just friends and family who

1555
00:58:15,829 --> 00:58:13,520
have any sort of beliefs about

1556
00:58:17,750 --> 00:58:15,839
all sorts of political or religious

1557
00:58:21,589 --> 00:58:17,760
beliefs or anything like that it's

1558
00:58:25,430 --> 00:58:21,599
paradigm it's dogma doesn't change and

1559
00:58:28,309 --> 00:58:25,440
we look for science i look and this is

1560
00:58:29,829 --> 00:58:28,319
my upset with the dean raiden interview

1561
00:58:32,309 --> 00:58:29,839
is i

1562
00:58:33,510 --> 00:58:32,319
always felt that science was a chance

1563
00:58:34,470 --> 00:58:33,520
that we had

1564
00:58:39,750 --> 00:58:34,480
to

1565
00:58:42,309 --> 00:58:39,760
wait a minute we all know that we have

1566
00:58:45,430 --> 00:58:42,319
prejudices we have biases but

1567
00:58:47,990 --> 00:58:45,440
we can control for them a little bit

1568
00:58:50,549 --> 00:58:48,000
with this science thing

1569
00:58:53,190 --> 00:58:50,559
but what your experience

1570
00:58:55,190 --> 00:58:53,200
tells us and i think in a way the

1571
00:58:56,630 --> 00:58:55,200
interview with dean raiden tells us

1572
00:58:59,190 --> 00:58:56,640
is

1573
00:59:02,150 --> 00:58:59,200
that doesn't always work exactly the way

1574
00:59:04,710 --> 00:59:02,160
that it the way that it should because

1575
00:59:05,589 --> 00:59:04,720
these guys in the pk lab i mean

1576
00:59:07,109 --> 00:59:05,599
in the

1577
00:59:09,510 --> 00:59:07,119
scilab

1578
00:59:10,390 --> 00:59:09,520
if anyone in the world should be willing

1579
00:59:13,750 --> 00:59:10,400
to

1580
00:59:15,270 --> 00:59:13,760
have their paradigm shattered

1581
00:59:17,670 --> 00:59:15,280
they should they're setting themselves

1582
00:59:19,109 --> 00:59:17,680
up say come shatter my paradigm and then

1583
00:59:21,109 --> 00:59:19,119
you share their paradigm and they're

1584
00:59:23,349 --> 00:59:21,119
like i wouldn't believe it even if it

1585
00:59:24,950 --> 00:59:23,359
was true and this is where we're we're

1586
00:59:26,470 --> 00:59:24,960
going to consistently be stuck with

1587
00:59:28,789 --> 00:59:26,480
science

1588
00:59:30,309 --> 00:59:28,799
yeah i know well and you know one of the

1589
00:59:32,470 --> 00:59:30,319
things that the pk

1590
00:59:33,430 --> 00:59:32,480
can be really a total

1591
00:59:35,670 --> 00:59:33,440
jerk

1592
00:59:38,390 --> 00:59:35,680
the way it acts sometimes is because

1593
00:59:40,390 --> 00:59:38,400
like the one researcher who

1594
00:59:42,069 --> 00:59:40,400
who first off said all you know all

1595
00:59:42,870 --> 00:59:42,079
psychics are cheats

1596
00:59:46,789 --> 00:59:42,880
and

1597
00:59:48,630 --> 00:59:46,799
that wheel spun you could see it made

1598
00:59:51,030 --> 00:59:48,640
him uncomfortable and what was even

1599
00:59:53,829 --> 00:59:51,040
funnier was that there were times when

1600
00:59:56,470 --> 00:59:53,839
i'd be across the room and he'd go close

1601
00:59:58,230 --> 00:59:56,480
to the wheel on the table and

1602
01:00:00,870 --> 00:59:58,240
it would start spinning and he'd jump

1603
01:00:02,230 --> 01:00:00,880
back and it was like it's like yeah it's

1604
01:00:05,970 --> 01:00:02,240
just going to do that every time you can

1605
01:00:12,230 --> 01:00:09,270
[Laughter]

1606
01:00:14,549 --> 01:00:12,240
you know you you also tell the story

1607
01:00:17,349 --> 01:00:14,559
and this is just kind of anecdotally fun

1608
01:00:20,309 --> 01:00:17,359
and true in a in a way that

1609
01:00:21,829 --> 01:00:20,319
is kind of unexplainable other than

1610
01:00:23,510 --> 01:00:21,839
there's something in the extended

1611
01:00:24,789 --> 01:00:23,520
consciousness realm that is that

1612
01:00:26,549 --> 01:00:24,799
trickster

1613
01:00:27,589 --> 01:00:26,559
but

1614
01:00:34,230 --> 01:00:27,599
you

1615
01:00:35,990 --> 01:00:34,240
it opens up this ability in other people

1616
01:00:38,230 --> 01:00:36,000
in some way i say that not knowing what

1617
01:00:40,230 --> 01:00:38,240
that really means but you do pk and

1618
01:00:42,069 --> 01:00:40,240
suddenly people around you say let me

1619
01:00:44,630 --> 01:00:42,079
give it a try and then they can do it

1620
01:00:46,549 --> 01:00:44,640
too and then you go out to dinner with

1621
01:00:48,870 --> 01:00:46,559
the guys from uva and everyone's passing

1622
01:00:51,030 --> 01:00:48,880
the jar around and everyone's like hey i

1623
01:00:52,470 --> 01:00:51,040
did it i did it give me another drink

1624
01:00:53,990 --> 01:00:52,480
this is great

1625
01:00:55,270 --> 01:00:54,000
and then the second part of that story

1626
01:00:57,270 --> 01:00:55,280
you tell is

1627
01:00:59,829 --> 01:00:57,280
a few weeks later they're like

1628
01:01:02,069 --> 01:00:59,839
no i can't do it anymore you know what i

1629
01:01:03,670 --> 01:01:02,079
wonder if i really ever could do it you

1630
01:01:06,150 --> 01:01:03,680
know it's not

1631
01:01:08,309 --> 01:01:06,160
yeah that was actually not uva that was

1632
01:01:10,710 --> 01:01:08,319
people from the rhine research center it

1633
01:01:12,150 --> 01:01:10,720
was uh jim carpenter who wrote the book

1634
01:01:15,109 --> 01:01:12,160
first sight

1635
01:01:16,789 --> 01:01:15,119
um he had basically

1636
01:01:18,549 --> 01:01:16,799
kind of organized this thing where we

1637
01:01:20,470 --> 01:01:18,559
all went to this really good mexican

1638
01:01:21,990 --> 01:01:20,480
restaurant and

1639
01:01:23,430 --> 01:01:22,000
you know he he just wanted to show

1640
01:01:27,270 --> 01:01:23,440
people this effect because he thought it

1641
01:01:31,510 --> 01:01:29,109
yeah we had the pinwheel in the jar on

1642
01:01:33,430 --> 01:01:31,520
the table in the restaurant and i got it

1643
01:01:34,950 --> 01:01:33,440
to spin and then we were passing it

1644
01:01:37,430 --> 01:01:34,960
around and everyone was getting it to

1645
01:01:39,030 --> 01:01:37,440
spin inside the jar and you know people

1646
01:01:41,030 --> 01:01:39,040
were coming over and looking at what was

1647
01:01:43,030 --> 01:01:41,040
going on at the table like it was you

1648
01:01:45,430 --> 01:01:43,040
know um

1649
01:01:47,670 --> 01:01:45,440
and it was kind of this

1650
01:01:50,390 --> 01:01:47,680
fun thing that everybody was doing and

1651
01:01:51,990 --> 01:01:50,400
apparently even like the ugly wheel like

1652
01:01:54,710 --> 01:01:52,000
because the ryan bought their own ugly

1653
01:01:56,950 --> 01:01:54,720
wheel and so they had it after i was

1654
01:01:58,950 --> 01:01:56,960
gone and they said that for a while

1655
01:02:00,390 --> 01:01:58,960
people could come into the lab and get

1656
01:02:03,510 --> 01:02:00,400
that ugly wheel to spin under the

1657
01:02:05,589 --> 01:02:03,520
container and that worked for

1658
01:02:09,670 --> 01:02:05,599
maybe six months or so and

1659
01:02:13,750 --> 01:02:12,150
you know like it worked for a while and

1660
01:02:15,589 --> 01:02:13,760
you know everybody was kind of believing

1661
01:02:19,270 --> 01:02:15,599
in it for a while and then they just

1662
01:02:23,270 --> 01:02:21,750
so one of the things i want to draw out

1663
01:02:25,349 --> 01:02:23,280
and i'm not doing a great job with this

1664
01:02:27,910 --> 01:02:25,359
because i i i

1665
01:02:29,430 --> 01:02:27,920
i don't know i just don't know i that's

1666
01:02:31,510 --> 01:02:29,440
like too

1667
01:02:32,470 --> 01:02:31,520
too complicated but

1668
01:02:36,950 --> 01:02:32,480
one of the things i thought was

1669
01:02:38,390 --> 01:02:36,960
interesting in my talk with dean was

1670
01:02:40,950 --> 01:02:38,400
one of the really brilliant things that

1671
01:02:44,470 --> 01:02:40,960
dean has done with his experiments

1672
01:02:47,670 --> 01:02:44,480
which again are fundamental to science

1673
01:02:50,390 --> 01:02:47,680
because the fundamental assumption of

1674
01:02:53,109 --> 01:02:50,400
science is that

1675
01:02:54,630 --> 01:02:53,119
you're a soulless biological robot in a

1676
01:02:57,029 --> 01:02:54,640
meaningless universe

1677
01:02:57,910 --> 01:02:57,039
and nothing you could do could possibly

1678
01:03:00,630 --> 01:02:57,920
matter

1679
01:03:02,710 --> 01:03:00,640
because everything that and i i gotta

1680
01:03:05,029 --> 01:03:02,720
say in saying this dean totally stumbles

1681
01:03:06,309 --> 01:03:05,039
on the second part of this because i'm

1682
01:03:08,870 --> 01:03:06,319
the one who brought you into the

1683
01:03:11,589 --> 01:03:08,880
conversation with dean rayden because i

1684
01:03:14,710 --> 01:03:11,599
said hey i got a friend shirley black

1685
01:03:16,390 --> 01:03:14,720
most amazing pk person in the world

1686
01:03:18,549 --> 01:03:16,400
just done all this stuff in all these

1687
01:03:21,510 --> 01:03:18,559
laboratories and she'll tell you she's

1688
01:03:23,589 --> 01:03:21,520
had these kind of abilities her life and

1689
01:03:25,029 --> 01:03:23,599
they are connected to

1690
01:03:27,029 --> 01:03:25,039
near-death experience and she's had

1691
01:03:29,349 --> 01:03:27,039
three near-death experiences and by the

1692
01:03:31,190 --> 01:03:29,359
way her near-death experiences are not

1693
01:03:32,390 --> 01:03:31,200
substantially different from

1694
01:03:34,230 --> 01:03:32,400
thousands and thousands of other

1695
01:03:35,589 --> 01:03:34,240
near-death experiences of course they're

1696
01:03:37,829 --> 01:03:35,599
unique but they have a lot of these

1697
01:03:40,309 --> 01:03:37,839
similarities the kind of things that

1698
01:03:42,150 --> 01:03:40,319
scientists would generally think are

1699
01:03:43,990 --> 01:03:42,160
important when we measure those things

1700
01:03:46,630 --> 01:03:44,000
when we go out and talk to people about

1701
01:03:48,710 --> 01:03:46,640
their experiences like we do if they're

1702
01:03:50,390 --> 01:03:48,720
depressed or if they're anxious or if

1703
01:03:53,190 --> 01:03:50,400
they're

1704
01:03:54,549 --> 01:03:53,200
grieving we rely on their reporting

1705
01:03:56,390 --> 01:03:54,559
their self-reporting of their

1706
01:03:58,150 --> 01:03:56,400
experiences in order to find

1707
01:04:00,630 --> 01:03:58,160
commonalities in order to treat in order

1708
01:04:03,750 --> 01:04:00,640
to develop an understanding of that so

1709
01:04:06,950 --> 01:04:03,760
this idea that we would collect these

1710
01:04:10,069 --> 01:04:06,960
accounts across the spectrum and analyze

1711
01:04:12,710 --> 01:04:10,079
it is pure science is very mainstream

1712
01:04:14,630 --> 01:04:12,720
science so when i bring that up to dean

1713
01:04:17,270 --> 01:04:14,640
and say so

1714
01:04:18,950 --> 01:04:17,280
this has been reported that there is

1715
01:04:21,589 --> 01:04:18,960
this connection between the extended

1716
01:04:22,630 --> 01:04:21,599
consciousness realm and he goes

1717
01:04:24,230 --> 01:04:22,640
no

1718
01:04:25,750 --> 01:04:24,240
haven't you heard

1719
01:04:26,950 --> 01:04:25,760
then latest study on near-death

1720
01:04:30,309 --> 01:04:26,960
experience

1721
01:04:34,230 --> 01:04:30,319
says that it's just the eeg extending

1722
01:04:36,309 --> 01:04:34,240
beyond death and i'm like dane

1723
01:04:38,950 --> 01:04:36,319
how how can you be saying how could you

1724
01:04:41,349 --> 01:04:38,960
be not following the science that is a

1725
01:04:43,029 --> 01:04:41,359
ridiculous explanation it's been proven

1726
01:04:44,789 --> 01:04:43,039
over and over again and then i talked to

1727
01:04:47,349 --> 01:04:44,799
my friend mark ireland who just had an

1728
01:04:49,670 --> 01:04:47,359
interview with pinballamal the

1729
01:04:51,670 --> 01:04:49,680
cardiologist famous cardiologist from

1730
01:04:53,349 --> 01:04:51,680
the netherlands who's published some of

1731
01:04:54,870 --> 01:04:53,359
the most

1732
01:04:57,270 --> 01:04:54,880
scientifically

1733
01:04:58,630 --> 01:04:57,280
rigorous work on near-death experience

1734
01:05:00,309 --> 01:04:58,640
and he's written up the whole thing

1735
01:05:03,029 --> 01:05:00,319
saying well that's that doesn't

1736
01:05:04,630 --> 01:05:03,039
really explain the eeg that they're

1737
01:05:07,829 --> 01:05:04,640
finding does it really wouldn't really

1738
01:05:09,990 --> 01:05:07,839
correlate with what we found in other

1739
01:05:12,069 --> 01:05:10,000
medical conditions the eeg of people

1740
01:05:13,750 --> 01:05:12,079
under near-death experience it doesn't

1741
01:05:15,510 --> 01:05:13,760
fit with the overall phenomenon as we

1742
01:05:19,270 --> 01:05:15,520
understood it it just doesn't fit

1743
01:05:21,750 --> 01:05:19,280
doesn't fit doesn't fit so here i have

1744
01:05:24,309 --> 01:05:21,760
dr dean rayden who i have so much

1745
01:05:26,470 --> 01:05:24,319
admiration for doing really really

1746
01:05:29,029 --> 01:05:26,480
really sloppy science

1747
01:05:30,390 --> 01:05:29,039
because he's stating something as if he

1748
01:05:33,829 --> 01:05:30,400
knows it

1749
01:05:36,390 --> 01:05:33,839
and it's just not supported by the best

1750
01:05:39,190 --> 01:05:36,400
science he's doing

1751
01:05:40,150 --> 01:05:39,200
what everyone else is doing with his

1752
01:05:42,870 --> 01:05:40,160
stuff

1753
01:05:46,069 --> 01:05:42,880
which is to say i wouldn't believe it if

1754
01:05:48,069 --> 01:05:46,079
him even if it was true i don't want to

1755
01:05:51,430 --> 01:05:48,079
believe it because it contradicts my

1756
01:05:54,150 --> 01:05:51,440
worldview it contradicts what how i want

1757
01:05:56,630 --> 01:05:54,160
to see my place in the world i want to

1758
01:06:00,069 --> 01:05:56,640
believe in this kind of luciferian

1759
01:06:02,309 --> 01:06:00,079
transhumanism kind of do what thou wilt

1760
01:06:04,789 --> 01:06:02,319
create better than the creator gods and

1761
01:06:07,270 --> 01:06:04,799
i don't want any

1762
01:06:09,510 --> 01:06:07,280
data that would kind of

1763
01:06:11,109 --> 01:06:09,520
push me off that and if i get that data

1764
01:06:14,789 --> 01:06:11,119
i'm going to have some really creative

1765
01:06:17,670 --> 01:06:14,799
ways about spinning it in some other way

1766
01:06:19,670 --> 01:06:17,680
that's what i see happening

1767
01:06:22,230 --> 01:06:19,680
in the interview with dean raiden but

1768
01:06:26,549 --> 01:06:22,240
that's what i see happening in a broader

1769
01:06:30,789 --> 01:06:26,559
sense in your experience with both pk in

1770
01:06:33,430 --> 01:06:30,799
the lab and nde in the broader sense of

1771
01:06:34,870 --> 01:06:33,440
how it fits so

1772
01:06:36,630 --> 01:06:34,880
i don't know what part of that we're

1773
01:06:38,069 --> 01:06:36,640
going to tackle and how you want to

1774
01:06:39,910 --> 01:06:38,079
tackle it because i don't want to pull

1775
01:06:43,829 --> 01:06:39,920
you into

1776
01:06:46,309 --> 01:06:43,839
my kind of issues with this stuff but

1777
01:06:47,990 --> 01:06:46,319
we do have to talk about we do have to

1778
01:06:50,390 --> 01:06:48,000
swing this thing back into talking about

1779
01:06:52,150 --> 01:06:50,400
love and we have to understand that we

1780
01:06:54,470 --> 01:06:52,160
can't talk about love

1781
01:06:56,950 --> 01:06:54,480
until we nail this down otherwise we're

1782
01:06:59,750 --> 01:06:56,960
just talking about love as a

1783
01:07:00,390 --> 01:06:59,760
construct as a social construct as a you

1784
01:07:02,309 --> 01:07:00,400
know

1785
01:07:04,789 --> 01:07:02,319
it's not real it's just a biological

1786
01:07:05,670 --> 01:07:04,799
kind of thing yeah yeah

1787
01:07:08,309 --> 01:07:05,680
well

1788
01:07:09,270 --> 01:07:08,319
yeah what isn't a social construct these

1789
01:07:10,230 --> 01:07:09,280
days

1790
01:07:11,670 --> 01:07:10,240
but

1791
01:07:13,510 --> 01:07:11,680
you know i mean essentially you're

1792
01:07:17,990 --> 01:07:13,520
looking at

1793
01:07:19,829 --> 01:07:18,000
when did parapsychology go from

1794
01:07:21,910 --> 01:07:19,839
looking at being part of the human

1795
01:07:23,510 --> 01:07:21,920
potential movement

1796
01:07:25,270 --> 01:07:23,520
which i mean the human potential

1797
01:07:28,309 --> 01:07:25,280
movement

1798
01:07:30,710 --> 01:07:28,319
was you know be your best self be loving

1799
01:07:34,390 --> 01:07:30,720
connect with you know like let's connect

1800
01:07:37,910 --> 01:07:34,400
and be loving and it went from that

1801
01:07:40,230 --> 01:07:37,920
to being more of the transhumanist

1802
01:07:41,349 --> 01:07:40,240
you know humanity is done

1803
01:07:43,510 --> 01:07:41,359
let's

1804
01:07:46,150 --> 01:07:43,520
transfer our consciousness into robots

1805
01:07:48,870 --> 01:07:46,160
now and let's get rid of

1806
01:07:50,630 --> 01:07:48,880
love because love is what makes us do

1807
01:07:53,510 --> 01:07:50,640
all the bad things

1808
01:07:54,829 --> 01:07:53,520
you know love is what makes us

1809
01:07:56,390 --> 01:07:54,839
like they

1810
01:07:59,430 --> 01:07:56,400
they

1811
01:08:02,390 --> 01:07:59,440
transhumanism has no room for love

1812
01:08:05,670 --> 01:08:02,400
it absolutely you know like their basic

1813
01:08:07,990 --> 01:08:05,680
idea seems to be that

1814
01:08:10,390 --> 01:08:08,000
that uh humans are just

1815
01:08:12,710 --> 01:08:10,400
really really horrible creatures and

1816
01:08:15,349 --> 01:08:12,720
that it's our

1817
01:08:18,309 --> 01:08:15,359
desire to

1818
01:08:20,390 --> 01:08:18,319
have children and

1819
01:08:22,630 --> 01:08:20,400
form communities

1820
01:08:25,349 --> 01:08:22,640
and you know that that all leads to

1821
01:08:27,269 --> 01:08:25,359
having wars with other communities and

1822
01:08:30,070 --> 01:08:27,279
it leads to all the bad stuff in the

1823
01:08:31,910 --> 01:08:30,080
world and that humans are just so bad

1824
01:08:33,110 --> 01:08:31,920
that we have to

1825
01:08:35,110 --> 01:08:33,120
give up

1826
01:08:37,189 --> 01:08:35,120
all the good stuff to get rid of the bad

1827
01:08:38,950 --> 01:08:37,199
stuff so we have to give up the love

1828
01:08:41,669 --> 01:08:38,960
like that's what they're saying is is

1829
01:08:44,950 --> 01:08:41,679
that you have to give up the love to to

1830
01:08:47,269 --> 01:08:44,960
get a world that's peaceful

1831
01:08:49,349 --> 01:08:47,279
see and i i think that that both of

1832
01:08:52,229 --> 01:08:49,359
those uh

1833
01:08:54,070 --> 01:08:52,239
miss the point i think the human

1834
01:08:55,590 --> 01:08:54,080
potential movement

1835
01:08:58,709 --> 01:08:55,600
missed the point

1836
01:09:00,470 --> 01:08:58,719
and i think the transhumanism movement

1837
01:09:03,110 --> 01:09:00,480
misses the point

1838
01:09:04,550 --> 01:09:03,120
because the point to me is really at the

1839
01:09:08,229 --> 01:09:04,560
root of

1840
01:09:10,149 --> 01:09:08,239
your work

1841
01:09:12,630 --> 01:09:10,159
and that is

1842
01:09:14,309 --> 01:09:12,640
what is love

1843
01:09:16,470 --> 01:09:14,319
because

1844
01:09:19,030 --> 01:09:16,480
it and another way of stating the what

1845
01:09:20,709 --> 01:09:19,040
is love thing is the way that i put it

1846
01:09:23,110 --> 01:09:20,719
to dean and dean

1847
01:09:24,149 --> 01:09:23,120
immediately got very

1848
01:09:25,749 --> 01:09:24,159
kind of

1849
01:09:26,789 --> 01:09:25,759
was pulling back on the issue i can

1850
01:09:30,070 --> 01:09:26,799
actually i'm going to pull it up and

1851
01:09:34,390 --> 01:09:31,669
yeah you're talking about issues of

1852
01:09:37,590 --> 01:09:34,400
morality and ethics and

1853
01:09:40,630 --> 01:09:37,600
uh it's it might be related to all this

1854
01:09:43,590 --> 01:09:40,640
but i'm i'm not sure i would go there

1855
01:09:45,510 --> 01:09:43,600
except for with one proviso

1856
01:09:47,829 --> 01:09:45,520
and that is um

1857
01:09:48,709 --> 01:09:47,839
if you completely adopt materialism as

1858
01:09:51,430 --> 01:09:48,719
the

1859
01:09:53,829 --> 01:09:51,440
your way that you'll understand reality

1860
01:09:55,910 --> 01:09:53,839
then that leads to a picture of the

1861
01:09:57,990 --> 01:09:55,920
world wizard which is nihilism

1862
01:09:59,669 --> 01:09:58,000
which means there there is no ultimate

1863
01:10:01,510 --> 01:09:59,679
purpose to anything

1864
01:10:02,950 --> 01:10:01,520
uh when when your body dies you're dead

1865
01:10:05,110 --> 01:10:02,960
that's the end of it

1866
01:10:08,229 --> 01:10:05,120
um and and is

1867
01:10:10,470 --> 01:10:08,239
collected into this equip of he who dies

1868
01:10:12,310 --> 01:10:10,480
with the most toys wins

1869
01:10:13,910 --> 01:10:12,320
that's that

1870
01:10:16,310 --> 01:10:13,920
gives rise to the modern world that we

1871
01:10:19,030 --> 01:10:16,320
see today where essentially business is

1872
01:10:20,390 --> 01:10:19,040
extractive it is it's taking things out

1873
01:10:21,750 --> 01:10:20,400
of the natural world turning into

1874
01:10:22,870 --> 01:10:21,760
something else and then selling it to

1875
01:10:26,149 --> 01:10:22,880
you

1876
01:10:29,350 --> 01:10:26,159
well that's not sustainable

1877
01:10:30,390 --> 01:10:29,360
okay so this is really the issue right

1878
01:10:31,750 --> 01:10:30,400
there

1879
01:10:34,149 --> 01:10:31,760
and that

1880
01:10:35,430 --> 01:10:34,159
in that i would say it's like so many

1881
01:10:37,590 --> 01:10:35,440
things

1882
01:10:39,189 --> 01:10:37,600
most people are going to listen to that

1883
01:10:42,870 --> 01:10:39,199
and they're going to be nodding their

1884
01:10:45,830 --> 01:10:42,880
head like yeah yeah yeah all the way

1885
01:10:48,630 --> 01:10:45,840
i would suggest that it is logically

1886
01:10:49,830 --> 01:10:48,640
inconsistent and incoherent

1887
01:10:50,709 --> 01:10:49,840
in that

1888
01:10:53,510 --> 01:10:50,719
you know

1889
01:10:55,430 --> 01:10:53,520
the morality question is at the center

1890
01:10:57,990 --> 01:10:55,440
of this in that

1891
01:11:00,229 --> 01:10:58,000
the big morality question is is there

1892
01:11:05,110 --> 01:11:00,239
good and bad

1893
01:11:06,310 --> 01:11:05,120
outside of the moral construct because

1894
01:11:08,070 --> 01:11:06,320
you just said something you know you

1895
01:11:11,270 --> 01:11:08,080
said hey everything's a moral construct

1896
01:11:13,590 --> 01:11:11,280
these days ha ha well

1897
01:11:15,510 --> 01:11:13,600
that's always been true right we

1898
01:11:16,229 --> 01:11:15,520
understand that

1899
01:11:20,390 --> 01:11:16,239
is

1900
01:11:22,870 --> 01:11:20,400
no well what about in war what about in

1901
01:11:26,229 --> 01:11:22,880
self-defense oh well then maybe so

1902
01:11:27,510 --> 01:11:26,239
everything has that element of moral

1903
01:11:29,910 --> 01:11:27,520
construct

1904
01:11:33,030 --> 01:11:29,920
the philosophical question that we're

1905
01:11:35,830 --> 01:11:33,040
supposed to be answering in science that

1906
01:11:39,669 --> 01:11:35,840
dean i always thought was at the core of

1907
01:11:41,430 --> 01:11:39,679
his thing is of course we get that part

1908
01:11:43,350 --> 01:11:41,440
what we want to know

1909
01:11:45,110 --> 01:11:43,360
is there ever

1910
01:11:47,830 --> 01:11:45,120
any time

1911
01:11:50,470 --> 01:11:47,840
when there is some aspect of it even the

1912
01:11:51,910 --> 01:11:50,480
smallest part of it that is more than a

1913
01:11:54,470 --> 01:11:51,920
social construct

1914
01:11:56,470 --> 01:11:54,480
is there ever anything more

1915
01:11:59,350 --> 01:11:56,480
and he's saying he's contradicting

1916
01:12:01,350 --> 01:11:59,360
himself because he's saying well i think

1917
01:12:03,750 --> 01:12:01,360
that we would want to do these good

1918
01:12:06,830 --> 01:12:03,760
things why would we want to do if it's

1919
01:12:09,189 --> 01:12:06,840
purely a moral construct then all that

1920
01:12:11,510 --> 01:12:09,199
environmentally sound stuff that people

1921
01:12:13,830 --> 01:12:11,520
get all excited about doesn't really

1922
01:12:15,910 --> 01:12:13,840
make any sense it's just a moral

1923
01:12:18,630 --> 01:12:15,920
construct it's just people agreeing well

1924
01:12:20,229 --> 01:12:18,640
shouldn't we save the planet why

1925
01:12:21,430 --> 01:12:20,239
well because

1926
01:12:22,550 --> 01:12:21,440
of our kids

1927
01:12:28,870 --> 01:12:22,560
why

1928
01:12:33,350 --> 01:12:28,880
if there isn't at the core of it

1929
01:12:38,310 --> 01:12:33,360
some kind of moral sense of this is good

1930
01:12:41,669 --> 01:12:38,320
this is bad and i can't believe that he

1931
01:12:44,310 --> 01:12:41,679
kind of has conflated those two in a way

1932
01:12:46,790 --> 01:12:44,320
but then again i can because i just see

1933
01:12:49,030 --> 01:12:46,800
everybody doing it over and over again

1934
01:12:52,229 --> 01:12:49,040
you you have to be kind of a purist

1935
01:12:54,870 --> 01:12:52,239
radical philosopher to see that this is

1936
01:12:57,030 --> 01:12:54,880
the core question is there a moral

1937
01:12:59,270 --> 01:12:57,040
imperative of course there's a moral

1938
01:13:01,990 --> 01:12:59,280
imperative that's what the near-death

1939
01:13:04,390 --> 01:13:02,000
experience tells us and it tells us as

1940
01:13:06,310 --> 01:13:04,400
clearly as it could be it's the number

1941
01:13:07,830 --> 01:13:06,320
one thing that people go back and say

1942
01:13:11,030 --> 01:13:07,840
there is love

1943
01:13:11,910 --> 01:13:11,040
there is good there is light it changed

1944
01:13:14,950 --> 01:13:11,920
me

1945
01:13:17,510 --> 01:13:14,960
you can't have all that data like at 90

1946
01:13:19,910 --> 01:13:17,520
percent and then turn around and go well

1947
01:13:22,229 --> 01:13:19,920
i wouldn't believe it even if they even

1948
01:13:23,910 --> 01:13:22,239
if they told me so

1949
01:13:26,630 --> 01:13:23,920
yeah no i

1950
01:13:27,990 --> 01:13:26,640
i would totally agree that love is is a

1951
01:13:30,390 --> 01:13:28,000
real thing

1952
01:13:34,310 --> 01:13:32,630
you know it's funny when i was when i

1953
01:13:35,990 --> 01:13:34,320
did my first university degree it was

1954
01:13:37,350 --> 01:13:36,000
fine arts degree

1955
01:13:40,070 --> 01:13:37,360
and

1956
01:13:42,149 --> 01:13:40,080
the uh the fellow who uh supervised my

1957
01:13:44,709 --> 01:13:42,159
thesis there

1958
01:13:47,110 --> 01:13:44,719
he he kind of he told me the secret to

1959
01:13:49,189 --> 01:13:47,120
the universe when i was just a teenager

1960
01:13:51,270 --> 01:13:49,199
and basically he said that there is no

1961
01:13:54,709 --> 01:13:51,280
art without love

1962
01:13:56,630 --> 01:13:54,719
and and he said that really you know

1963
01:14:00,790 --> 01:13:56,640
good art and bad art he said that you

1964
01:14:01,990 --> 01:14:00,800
know drawings on on on a piece of paper

1965
01:14:05,990 --> 01:14:02,000
what

1966
01:14:08,550 --> 01:14:06,000
um

1967
01:14:10,070 --> 01:14:08,560
have an effect on others

1968
01:14:13,590 --> 01:14:10,080
is love

1969
01:14:15,830 --> 01:14:13,600
is is the you know like you have to do

1970
01:14:17,990 --> 01:14:15,840
where if you're going to be an artist

1971
01:14:20,149 --> 01:14:18,000
you have to put your love into your work

1972
01:14:22,149 --> 01:14:20,159
or it's crap

1973
01:14:23,750 --> 01:14:22,159
that's i mean that was how he described

1974
01:14:25,590 --> 01:14:23,760
it and i didn't really understand that

1975
01:14:28,229 --> 01:14:25,600
until i was a lot older

1976
01:14:29,910 --> 01:14:28,239
that really it's it's the love you put

1977
01:14:32,950 --> 01:14:29,920
into things

1978
01:14:33,750 --> 01:14:32,960
is what makes it meaningful

1979
01:14:40,229 --> 01:14:33,760
and

1980
01:14:42,630 --> 01:14:40,239
is a real thing

1981
01:14:45,030 --> 01:14:42,640
you know you keep saying that how do we

1982
01:14:46,790 --> 01:14:45,040
know that that's true

1983
01:14:48,310 --> 01:14:46,800
how do we know that because we have to

1984
01:14:50,950 --> 01:14:48,320
consider

1985
01:14:53,830 --> 01:14:50,960
the the alternative to that

1986
01:14:57,350 --> 01:14:53,840
is that love is merely

1987
01:15:00,070 --> 01:14:57,360
a biological function of your brain

1988
01:15:02,630 --> 01:15:00,080
it's this soup of chemicals that you're

1989
01:15:04,630 --> 01:15:02,640
swimming in being released inside your

1990
01:15:07,189 --> 01:15:04,640
body and we can

1991
01:15:09,910 --> 01:15:07,199
there's there's correlation there right

1992
01:15:11,189 --> 01:15:09,920
we can see that we can shoot people full

1993
01:15:12,790 --> 01:15:11,199
of these chemicals or measure when

1994
01:15:14,149 --> 01:15:12,800
they're full of these chemicals and we

1995
01:15:16,229 --> 01:15:14,159
can measure we can ask them their

1996
01:15:19,030 --> 01:15:16,239
feelings and they feel more quote

1997
01:15:21,350 --> 01:15:19,040
unquote love how do we know there isn't

1998
01:15:26,790 --> 01:15:21,360
anything more to it

1999
01:15:31,270 --> 01:15:28,870
well i mean i'll give you i'll give you

2000
01:15:32,950 --> 01:15:31,280
a hint you give me a hint you'll give me

2001
01:15:34,550 --> 01:15:32,960
well i mean as a near-death experiencer

2002
01:15:37,750 --> 01:15:34,560
i guess i just don't doubt it so it's

2003
01:15:42,229 --> 01:15:39,350
nope

2004
01:15:45,430 --> 01:15:42,239
but uh it's in your lab

2005
01:15:48,390 --> 01:15:45,440
it's in your pk lab

2006
01:15:50,070 --> 01:15:48,400
let me play an another clip here and

2007
01:15:54,229 --> 01:15:50,080
you'll see you know you don't have to

2008
01:15:58,550 --> 01:15:56,229
all of the experiments involving mind

2009
01:16:00,709 --> 01:15:58,560
and matter are essentially asking the

2010
01:16:03,510 --> 01:16:00,719
question is mind

2011
01:16:06,229 --> 01:16:03,520
is it causal or put in broader sense is

2012
01:16:09,110 --> 01:16:06,239
consciousness causal in the physical

2013
01:16:10,550 --> 01:16:09,120
world does it play a role other than

2014
01:16:13,350 --> 01:16:10,560
within the body

2015
01:16:15,189 --> 01:16:13,360
and so one way of thinking it is that i

2016
01:16:16,870 --> 01:16:15,199
can use my intention

2017
01:16:18,630 --> 01:16:16,880
and make something happen with a hundred

2018
01:16:20,709 --> 01:16:18,640
percent reliability

2019
01:16:23,189 --> 01:16:20,719
so i shall now demonstrate that

2020
01:16:25,110 --> 01:16:23,199
uh right arm move up

2021
01:16:27,910 --> 01:16:25,120
well it did that well it's just a mind

2022
01:16:30,149 --> 01:16:27,920
matter interaction my intention

2023
01:16:32,550 --> 01:16:30,159
has made something happen

2024
01:16:34,550 --> 01:16:32,560
the question here though is what else

2025
01:16:36,390 --> 01:16:34,560
can it do is it purely something within

2026
01:16:38,229 --> 01:16:36,400
the body or does it act at a distance so

2027
01:16:39,030 --> 01:16:38,239
the non-local aspect of it is saying

2028
01:16:40,790 --> 01:16:39,040
that

2029
01:16:43,830 --> 01:16:40,800
at a distance

2030
01:16:45,350 --> 01:16:43,840
my thoughts can influence something else

2031
01:16:47,030 --> 01:16:45,360
and we can measure that it actually

2032
01:16:48,870 --> 01:16:47,040
happened

2033
01:16:50,709 --> 01:16:48,880
what makes it and that's that's uh

2034
01:16:51,590 --> 01:16:50,719
non-local in space

2035
01:16:53,590 --> 01:16:51,600
so

2036
01:16:55,990 --> 01:16:53,600
stay with me here there's a leap of

2037
01:16:57,430 --> 01:16:56,000
logic but it really isn't a big one

2038
01:16:58,550 --> 01:16:57,440
just a lot of people don't want to go

2039
01:17:00,630 --> 01:16:58,560
down it

2040
01:17:03,350 --> 01:17:00,640
and that's that

2041
01:17:05,510 --> 01:17:03,360
so what you proved in the lab directly

2042
01:17:06,470 --> 01:17:05,520
is what he's saying right

2043
01:17:11,669 --> 01:17:06,480
and

2044
01:17:13,990 --> 01:17:11,679
way for a particular reason because he

2045
01:17:16,149 --> 01:17:14,000
he framed up his experiments inside of

2046
01:17:18,470 --> 01:17:16,159
the double slit experiment because

2047
01:17:20,310 --> 01:17:18,480
that's what science was

2048
01:17:22,630 --> 01:17:20,320
ready to take they said okay we've seen

2049
01:17:23,830 --> 01:17:22,640
that thing done a thousand times we've

2050
01:17:25,990 --> 01:17:23,840
seen that trick

2051
01:17:27,110 --> 01:17:26,000
done on stage a thousand times and he

2052
01:17:29,430 --> 01:17:27,120
said ah

2053
01:17:30,790 --> 01:17:29,440
but you haven't seen it done this way

2054
01:17:32,630 --> 01:17:30,800
and then he does the double slit

2055
01:17:34,550 --> 01:17:32,640
experiment he does the

2056
01:17:36,310 --> 01:17:34,560
does the entanglement thing and the

2057
01:17:38,229 --> 01:17:36,320
coherence thing and he shows the eye

2058
01:17:39,110 --> 01:17:38,239
dilation thing and all that and everyone

2059
01:17:40,149 --> 01:17:39,120
goes

2060
01:17:43,350 --> 01:17:40,159
wow

2061
01:17:46,229 --> 01:17:43,360
now if he really wanted to get ooh owls

2062
01:17:48,630 --> 01:17:46,239
he'd have cheryl lee spin the wheel

2063
01:17:51,910 --> 01:17:48,640
i'm dead serious spin the wheel is a

2064
01:17:54,470 --> 01:17:51,920
thousand times more powerful in terms of

2065
01:17:57,510 --> 01:17:54,480
its power to convince someone than

2066
01:17:59,590 --> 01:17:57,520
anything that dean has done but that's

2067
01:18:02,149 --> 01:17:59,600
okay and that's why

2068
01:18:03,350 --> 01:18:02,159
the experimenters that you do it then

2069
01:18:05,189 --> 01:18:03,360
gotta go

2070
01:18:07,030 --> 01:18:05,199
don't don't stop it i know i asked you

2071
01:18:08,790 --> 01:18:07,040
to do it but now stop doing it because i

2072
01:18:11,189 --> 01:18:08,800
can't handle it anymore right i mean

2073
01:18:13,030 --> 01:18:11,199
it's a more powerful experiment well

2074
01:18:14,870 --> 01:18:13,040
dean's had other people in his lab that

2075
01:18:17,669 --> 01:18:14,880
could move stuff in

2076
01:18:19,590 --> 01:18:17,679
like do the pk stuff like i i wouldn't

2077
01:18:22,709 --> 01:18:19,600
have been even the first

2078
01:18:25,030 --> 01:18:22,719
but he didn't he he explained to me that

2079
01:18:27,030 --> 01:18:25,040
it was just incredibly expensive to do

2080
01:18:28,310 --> 01:18:27,040
that kind of experimentation to a

2081
01:18:30,310 --> 01:18:28,320
standard

2082
01:18:31,990 --> 01:18:30,320
in which he would be

2083
01:18:34,550 --> 01:18:32,000
willing to put his name behind kind of

2084
01:18:36,390 --> 01:18:34,560
thing but certainly

2085
01:18:38,470 --> 01:18:36,400
certainly i would not have been this

2086
01:18:42,070 --> 01:18:38,480
first person going

2087
01:18:42,870 --> 01:18:42,080
to california to do that kind of thing

2088
01:18:46,950 --> 01:18:42,880
you know

2089
01:18:49,430 --> 01:18:46,960
and i'm certainly not the only one out

2090
01:18:50,870 --> 01:18:49,440
there who could and

2091
01:18:53,110 --> 01:18:50,880
you know and i've talked to other people

2092
01:18:56,709 --> 01:18:53,120
it's funny because after i did that ions

2093
01:18:58,790 --> 01:18:56,719
video there was another fellow um

2094
01:18:59,590 --> 01:18:58,800
sean mcnamara

2095
01:19:01,590 --> 01:18:59,600
who

2096
01:19:03,430 --> 01:19:01,600
saw the video and thought gee i wonder

2097
01:19:05,669 --> 01:19:03,440
if i could do that

2098
01:19:07,510 --> 01:19:05,679
and he found out he could

2099
01:19:09,750 --> 01:19:07,520
and so he's actually teaching classes

2100
01:19:12,709 --> 01:19:09,760
and doing it now because he thinks it's

2101
01:19:15,110 --> 01:19:12,719
a cool thing and he's like you know been

2102
01:19:16,470 --> 01:19:15,120
to some labs too and

2103
01:19:18,070 --> 01:19:16,480
you know i think that he's had some

2104
01:19:20,070 --> 01:19:18,080
frustrations

2105
01:19:21,990 --> 01:19:20,080
in terms of dealing with researchers

2106
01:19:23,750 --> 01:19:22,000
that

2107
01:19:26,310 --> 01:19:23,760
it's almost like the better your results

2108
01:19:28,870 --> 01:19:26,320
the less they want to do with you

2109
01:19:31,510 --> 01:19:28,880
okay let me try and continue to stitch

2110
01:19:33,189 --> 01:19:31,520
this together here is my friend of me

2111
01:19:36,149 --> 01:19:33,199
michael shermer

2112
01:19:38,950 --> 01:19:36,159
talking to joe rogan about life after

2113
01:19:41,350 --> 01:19:38,960
death a book i interviewed him on the

2114
01:19:44,550 --> 01:19:41,360
show about and he completely failed i

2115
01:19:46,070 --> 01:19:44,560
mean he misquoted all the researchers

2116
01:19:48,070 --> 01:19:46,080
that he was quoting in his book and i

2117
01:19:49,830 --> 01:19:48,080
pointed that out to him and

2118
01:19:52,790 --> 01:19:49,840
michael in his typical way just handled

2119
01:19:54,149 --> 01:19:52,800
it with the greatest ease and uh

2120
01:19:56,870 --> 01:19:54,159
sidestepping

2121
01:19:58,790 --> 01:19:56,880
no just the the kind of panache you know

2122
01:20:00,790 --> 01:19:58,800
kind of like a wow well that's an

2123
01:20:03,270 --> 01:20:00,800
interesting thought you're having there

2124
01:20:06,070 --> 01:20:03,280
but uh here's what's really kind of the

2125
01:20:08,550 --> 01:20:06,080
thing so this is uh michael shermer on

2126
01:20:09,750 --> 01:20:08,560
joe rogan two luciferian guys talking

2127
01:20:12,229 --> 01:20:09,760
about

2128
01:20:15,030 --> 01:20:12,239
do what thou wilt and uh yeah i see you

2129
01:20:17,430 --> 01:20:15,040
left see no one else you get the joke no

2130
01:20:19,830 --> 01:20:17,440
one else gets the joke

2131
01:20:21,669 --> 01:20:19,840
but it's not really a joke because if

2132
01:20:23,030 --> 01:20:21,679
you're looking at the world this way

2133
01:20:25,750 --> 01:20:23,040
there's only a couple ways to divide the

2134
01:20:27,990 --> 01:20:25,760
world and that's the gnostic luciferian

2135
01:20:29,590 --> 01:20:28,000
ways one way to divide it the light and

2136
01:20:31,590 --> 01:20:29,600
love is the other way to divide it and

2137
01:20:33,990 --> 01:20:31,600
it really is a lot more complicated than

2138
01:20:35,830 --> 01:20:34,000
that it really is that simple okay take

2139
01:20:37,669 --> 01:20:35,840
it away michael

2140
01:20:38,870 --> 01:20:37,679
but if you think about it from a simple

2141
01:20:40,790 --> 01:20:38,880
perspective

2142
01:20:42,310 --> 01:20:40,800
the entire universe is in your brain and

2143
01:20:44,550 --> 01:20:42,320
when you cease to exist the universe

2144
01:20:46,550 --> 01:20:44,560
ceases to exist it's just sort of true

2145
01:20:47,830 --> 01:20:46,560
by definition no he goes a little bit

2146
01:20:50,070 --> 01:20:47,840
further and says you know that

2147
01:20:52,870 --> 01:20:50,080
consciousness is everything and that we

2148
01:20:54,229 --> 01:20:52,880
bring into existence material stuff by

2149
01:20:55,669 --> 01:20:54,239
thinking about or observing it or

2150
01:20:57,669 --> 01:20:55,679
whatever and here's some quantum physics

2151
01:20:59,350 --> 01:20:57,679
experiments that are really spooky

2152
01:21:01,030 --> 01:20:59,360
it's like okay timeout you know no

2153
01:21:02,550 --> 01:21:01,040
quantum physics is weird and spooky

2154
01:21:04,870 --> 01:21:02,560
consciousness is weird and spooky that

2155
01:21:07,270 --> 01:21:04,880
doesn't mean they're connected what

2156
01:21:09,110 --> 01:21:07,280
that is a classic

2157
01:21:13,270 --> 01:21:09,120
classic michael shermer because of

2158
01:21:15,669 --> 01:21:13,280
course he gets it wrong and that's why i

2159
01:21:17,750 --> 01:21:15,679
played the first clip with uh

2160
01:21:19,590 --> 01:21:17,760
our friend dean rayden because

2161
01:21:22,709 --> 01:21:19,600
experimentally

2162
01:21:24,390 --> 01:21:22,719
dean rayden has falsified

2163
01:21:25,910 --> 01:21:24,400
what michael shermer is saying and

2164
01:21:28,390 --> 01:21:25,920
michael shermer isn't michael sherman

2165
01:21:31,910 --> 01:21:28,400
michael schumer is the stand-in here for

2166
01:21:34,550 --> 01:21:31,920
science for neuroscience for the

2167
01:21:36,550 --> 01:21:34,560
paradigm that they're propping up right

2168
01:21:38,470 --> 01:21:36,560
so the important part is that

2169
01:21:39,990 --> 01:21:38,480
experimentally

2170
01:21:43,110 --> 01:21:40,000
every which way

2171
01:21:45,110 --> 01:21:43,120
dean has falsified that that this

2172
01:21:47,590 --> 01:21:45,120
quantum physics

2173
01:21:49,189 --> 01:21:47,600
mumbo jumbo that sherma that shermer

2174
01:21:51,030 --> 01:21:49,199
keeps alluding to

2175
01:21:53,750 --> 01:21:51,040
is the foundation of our modern

2176
01:21:57,350 --> 01:21:53,760
technology it's how cell phones work its

2177
01:21:59,590 --> 01:21:57,360
house uh elon musk shoots his satellite

2178
01:22:02,790 --> 01:21:59,600
internet to everybody it's at the core

2179
01:22:04,629 --> 01:22:02,800
of all that it's not woo-woo and then

2180
01:22:07,189 --> 01:22:04,639
when you take it and you apply it like

2181
01:22:09,750 --> 01:22:07,199
dean raiden did you can show that there

2182
01:22:13,189 --> 01:22:09,760
is the kind of connection between

2183
01:22:15,830 --> 01:22:13,199
consciousness and this quantum effect of

2184
01:22:18,790 --> 01:22:15,840
the observer effect and entanglement

2185
01:22:21,189 --> 01:22:18,800
that's exactly what he proved in his lab

2186
01:22:24,229 --> 01:22:21,199
let's let let's let joe take it away one

2187
01:22:27,590 --> 01:22:24,239
step further into a pure luciferian

2188
01:22:29,750 --> 01:22:27,600
nonsense don't we just say we don't know

2189
01:22:31,750 --> 01:22:29,760
why don't we speculate on the

2190
01:22:33,830 --> 01:22:31,760
possibility of

2191
01:22:37,189 --> 01:22:33,840
consciousness being some sort of

2192
01:22:39,350 --> 01:22:37,199
ethereal thing or something that

2193
01:22:40,790 --> 01:22:39,360
exists outside of the bible we don't

2194
01:22:41,830 --> 01:22:40,800
know

2195
01:22:44,629 --> 01:22:41,840
okay

2196
01:22:47,590 --> 01:22:44,639
the reason that we don't is we're fine

2197
01:22:49,510 --> 01:22:47,600
to do that but what we want

2198
01:22:51,910 --> 01:22:49,520
is something more than that

2199
01:22:54,149 --> 01:22:51,920
we want to know in the way that you are

2200
01:22:57,110 --> 01:22:54,159
speculating because we are forced to

2201
01:22:58,790 --> 01:22:57,120
speculate in our life our life demands

2202
01:23:01,910 --> 01:22:58,800
that we speculate

2203
01:23:03,189 --> 01:23:01,920
is there good and bad or is there not

2204
01:23:04,229 --> 01:23:03,199
good and bad

2205
01:23:10,310 --> 01:23:04,239
is

2206
01:23:13,030 --> 01:23:10,320
imperative joe can talk about

2207
01:23:15,110 --> 01:23:13,040
speculating but he's again is

2208
01:23:18,390 --> 01:23:15,120
misunderstanding

2209
01:23:20,629 --> 01:23:18,400
he's conflating the real issue

2210
01:23:22,390 --> 01:23:20,639
you choose with your life

2211
01:23:24,629 --> 01:23:22,400
whether you believe there's a moral

2212
01:23:26,629 --> 01:23:24,639
imperative or whether you don't think

2213
01:23:28,229 --> 01:23:26,639
there's a moral imperative

2214
01:23:29,750 --> 01:23:28,239
joe rogan

2215
01:23:31,669 --> 01:23:29,760
michael shermer

2216
01:23:35,350 --> 01:23:31,679
and unfortunately

2217
01:23:38,629 --> 01:23:35,360
dr dean rayden are choosing to not

2218
01:23:40,310 --> 01:23:38,639
believe that there is a moral imperative

2219
01:23:42,790 --> 01:23:40,320
by default then

2220
01:23:45,270 --> 01:23:42,800
they are living their life as if there

2221
01:23:47,510 --> 01:23:45,280
is not a moral imperative there's a it's

2222
01:23:48,629 --> 01:23:47,520
a binary thing you can't have it in the

2223
01:23:50,790 --> 01:23:48,639
middle

2224
01:23:52,470 --> 01:23:50,800
what did do you get do you get

2225
01:23:54,310 --> 01:23:52,480
what i'm saying well i don't think

2226
01:23:56,310 --> 01:23:54,320
anyone would have kind of

2227
01:23:57,130 --> 01:23:56,320
connected the dots the way

2228
01:23:58,790 --> 01:23:57,140
you do to get there

2229
01:24:00,629 --> 01:23:58,800
[Laughter]

2230
01:24:02,470 --> 01:24:00,639
but how else how else do you connect

2231
01:24:04,070 --> 01:24:02,480
them i don't i mean that honestly i

2232
01:24:06,709 --> 01:24:04,080
don't understand the i don't understand

2233
01:24:08,390 --> 01:24:06,719
the other connection what would it be

2234
01:24:10,070 --> 01:24:08,400
what to understand that there's a moral

2235
01:24:11,830 --> 01:24:10,080
imperative

2236
01:24:13,270 --> 01:24:11,840
so the thing is

2237
01:24:15,270 --> 01:24:13,280
you know

2238
01:24:17,910 --> 01:24:15,280
are you luciferian gnostic do what thou

2239
01:24:20,310 --> 01:24:17,920
wilt create better than the creator gods

2240
01:24:21,750 --> 01:24:20,320
or are you well

2241
01:24:22,790 --> 01:24:21,760
god is really

2242
01:24:25,510 --> 01:24:22,800
somehow

2243
01:24:26,709 --> 01:24:25,520
driving this or or is it all i have to

2244
01:24:29,510 --> 01:24:26,719
do is

2245
01:24:31,189 --> 01:24:29,520
look to the light and do the right thing

2246
01:24:33,430 --> 01:24:31,199
all i have to do is

2247
01:24:36,310 --> 01:24:33,440
do the right thing and

2248
01:24:38,550 --> 01:24:36,320
to tell the truth all i have to do is

2249
01:24:40,310 --> 01:24:38,560
treat other people the way that i know

2250
01:24:42,709 --> 01:24:40,320
is the right thing not the social

2251
01:24:44,950 --> 01:24:42,719
construct of what it is to treat people

2252
01:24:47,510 --> 01:24:44,960
the right way not what uh

2253
01:24:49,669 --> 01:24:47,520
trudeau says is the treat or biden is to

2254
01:24:51,830 --> 01:24:49,679
just know in my heart

2255
01:24:53,590 --> 01:24:51,840
what the right thing is to do i mean

2256
01:24:56,870 --> 01:24:53,600
this is not complicated why are these

2257
01:24:58,709 --> 01:24:56,880
guys making it complicated

2258
01:25:00,470 --> 01:24:58,719
yeah well i mean you know with trudeau

2259
01:25:03,830 --> 01:25:00,480
if he uh

2260
01:25:06,390 --> 01:25:03,840
he'll say one thing and do another so

2261
01:25:09,110 --> 01:25:06,400
uh-oh are you frozen oh you're back

2262
01:25:14,149 --> 01:25:11,590
i'm trying to give you a chance to talk

2263
01:25:16,470 --> 01:25:14,159
i get excited and i steal the mic

2264
01:25:18,310 --> 01:25:16,480
that's okay that's okay i don't

2265
01:25:21,669 --> 01:25:18,320
i don't know we're we're at the we're at

2266
01:25:22,550 --> 01:25:21,679
the core part of this thing is because

2267
01:25:25,830 --> 01:25:22,560
you're

2268
01:25:28,310 --> 01:25:25,840
that i do

2269
01:25:29,510 --> 01:25:28,320
you're making it to me i don't i don't

2270
01:25:31,430 --> 01:25:29,520
understand how this is at all

2271
01:25:34,790 --> 01:25:31,440
complicated

2272
01:25:36,709 --> 01:25:34,800
me because

2273
01:25:38,149 --> 01:25:36,719
because i've experienced

2274
01:25:41,590 --> 01:25:38,159
the big love

2275
01:25:44,470 --> 01:25:41,600
so i guess you know and i just

2276
01:25:46,310 --> 01:25:44,480
i see it and like everything

2277
01:25:49,510 --> 01:25:46,320
so

2278
01:25:50,550 --> 01:25:49,520
problem

2279
01:25:52,390 --> 01:25:50,560
you know

2280
01:25:54,950 --> 01:25:52,400
and i know that that's not how it is for

2281
01:25:57,270 --> 01:25:54,960
everybody else or or

2282
01:25:58,790 --> 01:25:57,280
or at least you know for a lot of people

2283
01:26:01,830 --> 01:25:58,800
it's not that way

2284
01:26:09,590 --> 01:26:02,950
and

2285
01:26:11,350 --> 01:26:09,600
used to have an easier time connecting

2286
01:26:13,430 --> 01:26:11,360
with that

2287
01:26:14,709 --> 01:26:13,440
and you know it's like we're setting up

2288
01:26:17,590 --> 01:26:14,719
our society

2289
01:26:18,790 --> 01:26:17,600
to take us away from it so much

2290
01:26:20,149 --> 01:26:18,800
you know with the computers and

2291
01:26:22,310 --> 01:26:20,159
everything

2292
01:26:24,149 --> 01:26:22,320
you know i agree with that part of it

2293
01:26:26,629 --> 01:26:24,159
but like the interesting thing in our

2294
01:26:29,510 --> 01:26:26,639
conversation here is

2295
01:26:31,030 --> 01:26:29,520
like i can see it in your body language

2296
01:26:32,790 --> 01:26:31,040
and in your eyes

2297
01:26:33,750 --> 01:26:32,800
is that it's an experiential thing for

2298
01:26:36,149 --> 01:26:33,760
you

2299
01:26:39,110 --> 01:26:36,159
it is

2300
01:26:40,790 --> 01:26:39,120
and it just it just dominates what what

2301
01:26:42,950 --> 01:26:40,800
you're about you know

2302
01:26:44,550 --> 01:26:42,960
yeah

2303
01:26:46,470 --> 01:26:44,560
and your experience and you're

2304
01:26:49,430 --> 01:26:46,480
approaching it from uh let's connect the

2305
01:26:51,030 --> 01:26:49,440
dots and look for evidence which and i

2306
01:26:53,270 --> 01:26:51,040
mean there's a scientist part of me

2307
01:26:55,830 --> 01:26:53,280
that's like yeah but and and you're

2308
01:26:58,149 --> 01:26:55,840
right if the pinwheel spins in the jar

2309
01:27:00,550 --> 01:26:58,159
then there's something more

2310
01:27:01,750 --> 01:27:00,560
to us

2311
01:27:05,030 --> 01:27:01,760
you know exactly

2312
01:27:06,550 --> 01:27:05,040
there is something if there's

2313
01:27:09,590 --> 01:27:06,560
that's that's it

2314
01:27:12,149 --> 01:27:09,600
and if there's something more to us

2315
01:27:13,510 --> 01:27:12,159
then i would suggest that the burden of

2316
01:27:15,990 --> 01:27:13,520
proof

2317
01:27:19,270 --> 01:27:16,000
is on those who were always fooled into

2318
01:27:20,870 --> 01:27:19,280
thinking that there wasn't more to us

2319
01:27:23,110 --> 01:27:20,880
to

2320
01:27:24,950 --> 01:27:23,120
put forth the best evidence

2321
01:27:26,550 --> 01:27:24,960
that some of that more

2322
01:27:29,189 --> 01:27:26,560
isn't love

2323
01:27:31,510 --> 01:27:29,199
because i think some of that more

2324
01:27:34,070 --> 01:27:31,520
is love is real love

2325
01:27:34,870 --> 01:27:34,080
is not the social construct love

2326
01:27:36,550 --> 01:27:34,880
but

2327
01:27:40,149 --> 01:27:36,560
of real

2328
01:27:43,590 --> 01:27:40,159
undescribable love

2329
01:27:45,430 --> 01:27:43,600
yeah yeah no like i said it was like

2330
01:27:47,590 --> 01:27:45,440
my art teacher told me all those years

2331
01:27:50,950 --> 01:27:47,600
ago it's it's

2332
01:27:52,310 --> 01:27:50,960
love is what makes things great

2333
01:27:56,790 --> 01:27:52,320
you know

2334
01:27:59,110 --> 01:27:56,800
things and and

2335
01:28:00,390 --> 01:27:59,120
makes real art

2336
01:28:00,800 --> 01:28:00,400
possible

2337
01:28:02,149 --> 01:28:00,810
um

2338
01:28:03,189 --> 01:28:02,159
[Music]

2339
01:28:05,830 --> 01:28:03,199
and

2340
01:28:07,910 --> 01:28:05,840
you know it's

2341
01:28:10,149 --> 01:28:07,920
it it's one of those things that i mean

2342
01:28:11,430 --> 01:28:10,159
i found in the laboratories like i know

2343
01:28:13,110 --> 01:28:11,440
because it's you're right they try and

2344
01:28:14,709 --> 01:28:13,120
subtract love when they look at it in

2345
01:28:17,110 --> 01:28:14,719
the laboratories

2346
01:28:19,910 --> 01:28:17,120
and perhaps that's the reason why i

2347
01:28:22,149 --> 01:28:19,920
found that when i go to a laboratory and

2348
01:28:24,070 --> 01:28:22,159
get good results

2349
01:28:26,310 --> 01:28:24,080
that that they don't want to see me

2350
01:28:29,189 --> 01:28:26,320
again

2351
01:28:31,590 --> 01:28:29,199
like i think that's part of it is that

2352
01:28:34,470 --> 01:28:31,600
is that you're right it on some level

2353
01:28:36,390 --> 01:28:34,480
you kind of have to acknowledge

2354
01:28:37,990 --> 01:28:36,400
that because the because the wheel's

2355
01:28:40,310 --> 01:28:38,000
spinning in the jar that

2356
01:28:42,470 --> 01:28:40,320
that love is a thing

2357
01:28:44,629 --> 01:28:42,480
it's funny how all these guys ultimately

2358
01:28:47,350 --> 01:28:44,639
come back to death

2359
01:28:49,030 --> 01:28:47,360
because that is what it's all about that

2360
01:28:50,870 --> 01:28:49,040
is the ultimate fear

2361
01:28:52,790 --> 01:28:50,880
that they're trying to escape that's

2362
01:28:55,350 --> 01:28:52,800
what they're intellectually trying to

2363
01:28:56,550 --> 01:28:55,360
wrestle to the ground that people like

2364
01:28:59,270 --> 01:28:56,560
you

2365
01:29:02,629 --> 01:28:59,280
there's no issue there's no issue with

2366
01:29:05,669 --> 01:29:02,639
with death there's no barrier

2367
01:29:07,430 --> 01:29:05,679
and for me from a logical philosophical

2368
01:29:10,950 --> 01:29:07,440
non-spiritual

2369
01:29:12,870 --> 01:29:10,960
there's no barrier to death i have zero

2370
01:29:16,470 --> 01:29:12,880
fear of death

2371
01:29:19,030 --> 01:29:16,480
zero fear of what comes after and i do

2372
01:29:21,110 --> 01:29:19,040
feel compelled to try and be

2373
01:29:22,310 --> 01:29:21,120
a better person

2374
01:29:25,830 --> 01:29:22,320
because

2375
01:29:28,229 --> 01:29:25,840
i do see it as a continuous journey and

2376
01:29:29,430 --> 01:29:28,239
something that i will be accountable for

2377
01:29:31,590 --> 01:29:29,440
again

2378
01:29:34,790 --> 01:29:31,600
this is obvious stuff

2379
01:29:37,590 --> 01:29:34,800
how is dean missing this how has he done

2380
01:29:39,830 --> 01:29:37,600
this brilliant science and is failing at

2381
01:29:41,350 --> 01:29:39,840
the big questions

2382
01:29:43,750 --> 01:29:41,360
that is the only

2383
01:29:44,790 --> 01:29:43,760
i'll stop there how how does that happen

2384
01:29:46,470 --> 01:29:44,800
how does that happen with the other

2385
01:29:48,070 --> 01:29:46,480
scientists you've seen

2386
01:29:50,390 --> 01:29:48,080
you know i

2387
01:29:52,070 --> 01:29:50,400
i think right now people are just

2388
01:29:53,350 --> 01:29:52,080
like with everything that's going on in

2389
01:29:55,110 --> 01:29:53,360
the world

2390
01:29:58,149 --> 01:29:55,120
that i think people

2391
01:30:00,870 --> 01:29:58,159
are just starting to give up on humanity

2392
01:30:03,110 --> 01:30:00,880
like that's i mean

2393
01:30:05,510 --> 01:30:03,120
to me that's what transhumanism is

2394
01:30:07,750 --> 01:30:05,520
really about it's it's giving up on the

2395
01:30:10,390 --> 01:30:07,760
love it's giving up on humanity because

2396
01:30:12,629 --> 01:30:10,400
you just think that

2397
01:30:15,590 --> 01:30:12,639
it's better to be the borg

2398
01:30:17,430 --> 01:30:15,600
you know i completely disagree and i

2399
01:30:21,830 --> 01:30:17,440
think that comes from the perspective of

2400
01:30:25,350 --> 01:30:21,840
someone who is in the love i think the

2401
01:30:26,550 --> 01:30:25,360
driving motivation is fear and control

2402
01:30:28,950 --> 01:30:26,560
fear of

2403
01:30:31,430 --> 01:30:28,960
their experience with

2404
01:30:33,510 --> 01:30:31,440
the ultimate annihilation of who they

2405
01:30:37,030 --> 01:30:33,520
are which we are all facing

2406
01:30:39,430 --> 01:30:37,040
and a need to somehow in some way

2407
01:30:42,310 --> 01:30:39,440
take control of that to create better

2408
01:30:44,629 --> 01:30:42,320
than the creator gods to find a way

2409
01:30:46,550 --> 01:30:44,639
out on the back end

2410
01:30:49,189 --> 01:30:46,560
okay so you think it's kind of like an

2411
01:30:51,910 --> 01:30:49,199
arrogance i think it's no well i think

2412
01:30:53,910 --> 01:30:51,920
it's an arrogance based on fear and my

2413
01:30:56,470 --> 01:30:53,920
supporting data for that would be this

2414
01:30:58,790 --> 01:30:56,480
has gone on through the ages it's really

2415
01:30:59,750 --> 01:30:58,800
not anything particularly unique about

2416
01:31:02,390 --> 01:30:59,760
us

2417
01:31:04,870 --> 01:31:02,400
they've always all these

2418
01:31:06,870 --> 01:31:04,880
guys in that camp have always said the

2419
01:31:09,350 --> 01:31:06,880
same thing all the magicians have always

2420
01:31:11,030 --> 01:31:09,360
said the same thing all the esoteric

2421
01:31:11,990 --> 01:31:11,040
people all the

2422
01:31:14,629 --> 01:31:12,000
uh

2423
01:31:17,270 --> 01:31:14,639
alistair crowley types you know do what

2424
01:31:20,149 --> 01:31:17,280
thou wilt take you know

2425
01:31:21,910 --> 01:31:20,159
make you into you create better keep

2426
01:31:23,030 --> 01:31:21,920
saying it create better than the creator

2427
01:31:25,270 --> 01:31:23,040
gods

2428
01:31:26,709 --> 01:31:25,280
i don't think that i see like just when

2429
01:31:28,790 --> 01:31:26,719
i say that to you there's just like this

2430
01:31:31,270 --> 01:31:28,800
blank stare in your face like it's like

2431
01:31:33,430 --> 01:31:31,280
why would they want that why how does

2432
01:31:35,350 --> 01:31:33,440
that make any sense

2433
01:31:38,950 --> 01:31:35,360
what would i what would i possibly

2434
01:31:42,070 --> 01:31:38,960
create that would be better than

2435
01:31:43,510 --> 01:31:42,080
the light than god than love what could

2436
01:31:45,830 --> 01:31:43,520
i possibly

2437
01:31:48,310 --> 01:31:45,840
i don't you know it yeah there's a blank

2438
01:31:49,750 --> 01:31:48,320
look on your face right yeah well i mean

2439
01:31:51,590 --> 01:31:49,760
that's why this conversation is

2440
01:31:54,310 --> 01:31:51,600
difficult for me

2441
01:31:56,310 --> 01:31:54,320
because i don't i don't get get like why

2442
01:31:57,990 --> 01:31:56,320
they would want that

2443
01:31:59,110 --> 01:31:58,000
but but you're right i think a lot of

2444
01:32:01,270 --> 01:31:59,120
them

2445
01:32:03,189 --> 01:32:01,280
are certainly going there

2446
01:32:04,390 --> 01:32:03,199
um

2447
01:32:06,070 --> 01:32:04,400
you know like

2448
01:32:07,430 --> 01:32:06,080
i mean you even see it in pop culture

2449
01:32:09,350 --> 01:32:07,440
like i just want

2450
01:32:11,669 --> 01:32:09,360
not not that i'm a fan of the latest

2451
01:32:13,590 --> 01:32:11,679
star trek because it kind of sucks but

2452
01:32:16,310 --> 01:32:13,600
but you know like in the the last

2453
01:32:18,470 --> 01:32:16,320
episode of discovery this season where

2454
01:32:21,030 --> 01:32:18,480
they're you know the aliens are a

2455
01:32:23,030 --> 01:32:21,040
collective and they don't understand

2456
01:32:25,270 --> 01:32:23,040
that there's

2457
01:32:26,709 --> 01:32:25,280
you know many many people as opposed to

2458
01:32:29,270 --> 01:32:26,719
just one

2459
01:32:31,350 --> 01:32:29,280
you know one collective person and you

2460
01:32:34,310 --> 01:32:31,360
know they're and they're a good

2461
01:32:35,669 --> 01:32:34,320
alien that that uh you know because

2462
01:32:37,590 --> 01:32:35,679
they're

2463
01:32:40,950 --> 01:32:37,600
just one consciousness type of thing and

2464
01:32:42,709 --> 01:32:40,960
it's like individuality is okay too

2465
01:32:44,390 --> 01:32:42,719
you know because that's part of it like

2466
01:32:47,030 --> 01:32:44,400
i didn't you know i didn't come back

2467
01:32:48,709 --> 01:32:47,040
from my nde thinking that i wasn't an

2468
01:32:50,790 --> 01:32:48,719
individual

2469
01:32:52,149 --> 01:32:50,800
i i mean i'm part of something bigger

2470
01:32:55,910 --> 01:32:52,159
but

2471
01:33:00,870 --> 01:32:57,030
and i think all the different

2472
01:33:02,229 --> 01:33:00,880
expressions of me are good

2473
01:33:04,870 --> 01:33:02,239
well this is one of the things that came

2474
01:33:06,950 --> 01:33:04,880
up in the interview with dean you know

2475
01:33:10,070 --> 01:33:06,960
that i think is gonna throw a lot of

2476
01:33:12,709 --> 01:33:10,080
people for a huge loop and it should

2477
01:33:14,870 --> 01:33:12,719
because again the art aspect of it is

2478
01:33:16,310 --> 01:33:14,880
kind of interesting when people start

2479
01:33:18,470 --> 01:33:16,320
talking about their art then they're

2480
01:33:20,709 --> 01:33:18,480
freed up to talk more freely and that's

2481
01:33:23,510 --> 01:33:20,719
what dean does and he says hey this hive

2482
01:33:25,189 --> 01:33:23,520
mind thing this is the way to go you

2483
01:33:27,590 --> 01:33:25,199
know we figured out how to jab you in

2484
01:33:30,390 --> 01:33:27,600
the arm and change your dna and wouldn't

2485
01:33:32,790 --> 01:33:30,400
it be cool if we could change your dna

2486
01:33:36,229 --> 01:33:32,800
so that you were a hive mind rather than

2487
01:33:37,750 --> 01:33:36,239
this individualistic kind of thing and

2488
01:33:40,149 --> 01:33:37,760
you can't

2489
01:33:43,510 --> 01:33:40,159
kind of a priori say

2490
01:33:46,470 --> 01:33:43,520
that's that's crazy dean no one would

2491
01:33:48,870 --> 01:33:46,480
ever want that you can't be a luddite

2492
01:33:51,350 --> 01:33:48,880
and say that somebody isn't going to try

2493
01:33:53,590 --> 01:33:51,360
and do that because as soon as we get

2494
01:33:55,189 --> 01:33:53,600
the technical capability to do it which

2495
01:33:57,350 --> 01:33:55,199
we already have by the way

2496
01:33:59,830 --> 01:33:57,360
someone will try and do it

2497
01:34:02,950 --> 01:33:59,840
the that's what drives the moral

2498
01:34:04,390 --> 01:34:02,960
imperative the only thing we can really

2499
01:34:07,910 --> 01:34:04,400
ask is

2500
01:34:10,550 --> 01:34:07,920
is that what i should do right now

2501
01:34:11,750 --> 01:34:10,560
is that the best thing for my soul right

2502
01:34:14,229 --> 01:34:11,760
now

2503
01:34:16,790 --> 01:34:14,239
that is the only question

2504
01:34:18,470 --> 01:34:16,800
indeed doesn't seem to be tied in tuned

2505
01:34:21,189 --> 01:34:18,480
into that question

2506
01:34:23,430 --> 01:34:21,199
is that if it happens or not

2507
01:34:26,070 --> 01:34:23,440
you can't control that but do you want

2508
01:34:27,510 --> 01:34:26,080
to be the guy to do it

2509
01:34:29,750 --> 01:34:27,520
yeah

2510
01:34:31,430 --> 01:34:29,760
i don't know i don't know i mean maybe

2511
01:34:34,070 --> 01:34:31,440
someday we'll

2512
01:34:35,910 --> 01:34:34,080
you know you ever watched that um oh

2513
01:34:37,189 --> 01:34:35,920
that black mirror

2514
01:34:38,790 --> 01:34:37,199
where you know there was an episode

2515
01:34:41,669 --> 01:34:38,800
where there were kind of two societies

2516
01:34:43,189 --> 01:34:41,679
one that had had gone for technology and

2517
01:34:45,430 --> 01:34:43,199
one that had kind of rejected the

2518
01:34:47,270 --> 01:34:45,440
technology and uh

2519
01:34:49,590 --> 01:34:47,280
when they showed how just you know

2520
01:34:51,270 --> 01:34:49,600
addictive the technology was the teenage

2521
01:34:53,669 --> 01:34:51,280
girl coming into the society with

2522
01:34:55,510 --> 01:34:53,679
technology suddenly she wanted it all

2523
01:34:57,669 --> 01:34:55,520
and they used it to turn her against her

2524
01:35:00,390 --> 01:34:57,679
mother and it's just such a horrible

2525
01:35:02,550 --> 01:35:00,400
like horrible sad episode

2526
01:35:04,229 --> 01:35:02,560
but it's very true like is the

2527
01:35:06,870 --> 01:35:04,239
technology around us

2528
01:35:09,189 --> 01:35:06,880
you know turning us against family and

2529
01:35:10,950 --> 01:35:09,199
turning us into something else and i

2530
01:35:12,390 --> 01:35:10,960
mean you know and like you know maybe

2531
01:35:16,870 --> 01:35:12,400
that's why i'm so weird is because i

2532
01:35:20,709 --> 01:35:18,950
well didn't you say there was uh some

2533
01:35:23,109 --> 01:35:20,719
folks in your family were what uh

2534
01:35:25,109 --> 01:35:23,119
mennonite uh what

2535
01:35:27,350 --> 01:35:25,119
weren't they kind of uh turned their

2536
01:35:28,550 --> 01:35:27,360
back on technology too kind of like the

2537
01:35:29,430 --> 01:35:28,560
amish

2538
01:35:31,910 --> 01:35:29,440
yeah

2539
01:35:33,590 --> 01:35:31,920
not not quite as much like mennonites in

2540
01:35:36,470 --> 01:35:33,600
manitoba

2541
01:35:37,910 --> 01:35:36,480
certainly use technology but

2542
01:35:40,550 --> 01:35:37,920
you know there are members of my family

2543
01:35:44,070 --> 01:35:40,560
who are not vaccinated and

2544
01:35:44,870 --> 01:35:44,080
for anything like of any kind and

2545
01:35:45,669 --> 01:35:44,880
and

2546
01:35:47,750 --> 01:35:45,679
has

2547
01:35:48,950 --> 01:35:47,760
you know i mean everyone my personal

2548
01:35:51,189 --> 01:35:48,960
belief is everyone should have the

2549
01:35:53,030 --> 01:35:51,199
choice that to make their own decisions

2550
01:35:55,189 --> 01:35:53,040
i mean my government doesn't share that

2551
01:35:57,910 --> 01:35:55,199
opinion right now

2552
01:36:01,189 --> 01:35:57,920
but you know um

2553
01:36:02,790 --> 01:36:01,199
but yeah you know and that's

2554
01:36:05,189 --> 01:36:02,800
kind of a scary thing in the world is

2555
01:36:07,350 --> 01:36:05,199
that uh

2556
01:36:09,109 --> 01:36:07,360
that people are having their choices

2557
01:36:11,590 --> 01:36:09,119
taken away

2558
01:36:14,070 --> 01:36:11,600
and do you think that it all relates to

2559
01:36:15,830 --> 01:36:14,080
the conversation we're having here

2560
01:36:17,510 --> 01:36:15,840
i think i think it's part of it i i

2561
01:36:18,950 --> 01:36:17,520
don't you know i think all of these

2562
01:36:22,390 --> 01:36:18,960
things are connected

2563
01:36:25,030 --> 01:36:22,400
but but certainly this idea that

2564
01:36:27,189 --> 01:36:25,040
you know the government doesn't

2565
01:36:29,669 --> 01:36:27,199
want there to be individual choices and

2566
01:36:31,350 --> 01:36:29,679
that they're making choices

2567
01:36:33,750 --> 01:36:31,360
see here's the connection for me and

2568
01:36:36,229 --> 01:36:33,760
again it gets back to the blank stare in

2569
01:36:39,350 --> 01:36:36,239
your in your in your face

2570
01:36:42,229 --> 01:36:39,360
is that for people who are completely

2571
01:36:43,750 --> 01:36:42,239
grounded in the idea that

2572
01:36:45,590 --> 01:36:43,760
there is more

2573
01:36:46,950 --> 01:36:45,600
and that there's a way to connect with

2574
01:36:49,189 --> 01:36:46,960
that more

2575
01:36:51,270 --> 01:36:49,199
and that way is just to access the light

2576
01:36:53,750 --> 01:36:51,280
and to continually access the light at

2577
01:36:56,070 --> 01:36:53,760
any time whenever you want

2578
01:36:58,229 --> 01:36:56,080
they don't want to control other people

2579
01:36:59,910 --> 01:36:58,239
they just don't it's just a different

2580
01:37:02,629 --> 01:36:59,920
mindset they're like

2581
01:37:04,870 --> 01:37:02,639
well what that person is doing wrong

2582
01:37:07,030 --> 01:37:04,880
well why would i want to control that

2583
01:37:10,310 --> 01:37:07,040
maybe that's part of their journey you

2584
01:37:11,910 --> 01:37:10,320
know it's like when you uh talk to

2585
01:37:13,189 --> 01:37:11,920
people in different wisdom traditions

2586
01:37:14,870 --> 01:37:13,199
who are truly wise because there's a lot

2587
01:37:17,030 --> 01:37:14,880
of people in different traditions that

2588
01:37:19,990 --> 01:37:17,040
aren't that wise but like there's some

2589
01:37:22,149 --> 01:37:20,000
buddhists who are pretty wise and when

2590
01:37:24,070 --> 01:37:22,159
they talk about the worst crimes that

2591
01:37:26,629 --> 01:37:24,080
they see whether it's you know

2592
01:37:29,189 --> 01:37:26,639
pedophilia or murder or whatever

2593
01:37:30,950 --> 01:37:29,199
they talk about it as a way of just well

2594
01:37:33,109 --> 01:37:30,960
they're confused

2595
01:37:35,510 --> 01:37:33,119
not they're bad they're evil they need

2596
01:37:37,910 --> 01:37:35,520
to be thrown on the fires of hell they

2597
01:37:39,990 --> 01:37:37,920
say they're confused

2598
01:37:41,910 --> 01:37:40,000
and to me that's such a subtle and

2599
01:37:43,830 --> 01:37:41,920
important shift it's the

2600
01:37:46,229 --> 01:37:43,840
of course there's a light of course

2601
01:37:48,950 --> 01:37:46,239
there's a moral imperative of course we

2602
01:37:50,470 --> 01:37:48,960
have the ability to choose it anyone who

2603
01:37:53,430 --> 01:37:50,480
doesn't choose it

2604
01:37:56,229 --> 01:37:53,440
is just a little bit confused on their

2605
01:37:58,790 --> 01:37:56,239
journey so when to me all these

2606
01:38:03,350 --> 01:37:58,800
questions are so easily resolvable is it

2607
01:38:07,109 --> 01:38:03,360
okay to force people to take a jab

2608
01:38:10,790 --> 01:38:07,119
no i mean never ever ever is it okay to

2609
01:38:11,830 --> 01:38:10,800
decide that you know our species is over

2610
01:38:13,910 --> 01:38:11,840
and the

2611
01:38:16,070 --> 01:38:13,920
next species needs to come and i need to

2612
01:38:17,910 --> 01:38:16,080
be a part of it by reprogramming

2613
01:38:20,950 --> 01:38:17,920
everyone's dna

2614
01:38:23,350 --> 01:38:20,960
no that thought never even enters your

2615
01:38:24,709 --> 01:38:23,360
mind if you're open to the light you

2616
01:38:26,870 --> 01:38:24,719
just don't

2617
01:38:29,669 --> 01:38:26,880
the the equation doesn't

2618
01:38:31,350 --> 01:38:29,679
add up that way do you uh do you agree

2619
01:38:33,590 --> 01:38:31,360
with that or do you think that oh yeah

2620
01:38:35,669 --> 01:38:33,600
no i agree with that and it's like

2621
01:38:37,430 --> 01:38:35,679
you know many of the truckers who went

2622
01:38:39,510 --> 01:38:37,440
to downtown ottawa

2623
01:38:41,910 --> 01:38:39,520
are coming back because it was such a

2624
01:38:44,229 --> 01:38:41,920
loving experience like the first three

2625
01:38:46,229 --> 01:38:44,239
weeks they were there it was like this

2626
01:38:48,390 --> 01:38:46,239
giant nde

2627
01:38:51,270 --> 01:38:48,400
was enveloping that community i mean

2628
01:38:53,430 --> 01:38:51,280
they were feeding the homeless they were

2629
01:38:57,030 --> 01:38:53,440
they were cleaning up the downtown the

2630
01:38:59,910 --> 01:38:57,040
crime rate dropped like i i you know the

2631
01:39:02,550 --> 01:38:59,920
like it was just this huge

2632
01:39:04,790 --> 01:39:02,560
sense of community and love and people

2633
01:39:06,390 --> 01:39:04,800
who were coming across canada one radio

2634
01:39:08,229 --> 01:39:06,400
producer came in because she wanted to

2635
01:39:09,510 --> 01:39:08,239
see what was really going on because she

2636
01:39:10,629 --> 01:39:09,520
didn't believe the news because

2637
01:39:12,310 --> 01:39:10,639
obviously

2638
01:39:14,470 --> 01:39:12,320
being in media she understands how much

2639
01:39:16,550 --> 01:39:14,480
fake news there is and

2640
01:39:18,550 --> 01:39:16,560
and you know particularly in canada

2641
01:39:21,350 --> 01:39:18,560
because it's all state-sponsored news

2642
01:39:23,189 --> 01:39:21,360
now other than a few independents and

2643
01:39:24,310 --> 01:39:23,199
she went there and she posted this video

2644
01:39:26,950 --> 01:39:24,320
and she says

2645
01:39:29,590 --> 01:39:26,960
there's just love here this is the most

2646
01:39:32,950 --> 01:39:29,600
love i have ever felt this is just

2647
01:39:34,149 --> 01:39:32,960
it's just everything here is love and it

2648
01:39:37,030 --> 01:39:34,159
was like

2649
01:39:38,790 --> 01:39:37,040
that's why the government had to

2650
01:39:41,270 --> 01:39:38,800
you know bring in the cavalry and

2651
01:39:43,430 --> 01:39:41,280
trample people with horses and

2652
01:39:45,669 --> 01:39:43,440
and kick veterans who are wearing their

2653
01:39:47,910 --> 01:39:45,679
medals in the ribs and

2654
01:39:49,590 --> 01:39:47,920
and breaking bones and

2655
01:39:52,070 --> 01:39:49,600
and arresting people like it was so

2656
01:39:54,390 --> 01:39:52,080
horrible that they would do that

2657
01:39:56,390 --> 01:39:54,400
to such a loving group but

2658
01:39:58,950 --> 01:39:56,400
from their perspective they had to stop

2659
01:40:00,870 --> 01:39:58,960
the love because that's they didn't want

2660
01:40:03,109 --> 01:40:00,880
people thinking that

2661
01:40:07,590 --> 01:40:03,119
that they could you know

2662
01:40:11,350 --> 01:40:09,350
you know that that's how i really see

2663
01:40:13,270 --> 01:40:11,360
what happened here and and they've made

2664
01:40:15,990 --> 01:40:13,280
sure that people are

2665
01:40:17,030 --> 01:40:16,000
afraid like you know by by closing bank

2666
01:40:18,709 --> 01:40:17,040
accounts

2667
01:40:21,590 --> 01:40:18,719
and

2668
01:40:24,790 --> 01:40:21,600
or freezing bank accounts i mean they

2669
01:40:27,590 --> 01:40:24,800
can't do that to organize crime here

2670
01:40:30,950 --> 01:40:27,600
but they did it to

2671
01:40:32,470 --> 01:40:30,960
you know hairdressers who gave 20 bucks

2672
01:40:34,830 --> 01:40:32,480
to the to

2673
01:40:36,390 --> 01:40:34,840
the truckers convoy

2674
01:40:38,629 --> 01:40:36,400
um

2675
01:40:40,470 --> 01:40:38,639
i and and clearly it was about they had

2676
01:40:45,189 --> 01:40:40,480
to destroy that love and make people

2677
01:40:50,070 --> 01:40:47,270
that's quite uh

2678
01:40:52,470 --> 01:40:50,080
quite a leap

2679
01:40:53,350 --> 01:40:52,480
no it it is just in the sense of you

2680
01:40:56,229 --> 01:40:53,360
know

2681
01:40:58,229 --> 01:40:56,239
i hear you on one level

2682
01:41:01,350 --> 01:40:58,239
on another on another level the

2683
01:41:03,189 --> 01:41:01,360
collective always breaks down for me

2684
01:41:06,310 --> 01:41:03,199
because there's

2685
01:41:07,270 --> 01:41:06,320
all kinds of contradictions and

2686
01:41:10,950 --> 01:41:07,280
counter

2687
01:41:13,830 --> 01:41:10,960
evidence of you know how do you run

2688
01:41:16,709 --> 01:41:13,840
a country you know how do you run

2689
01:41:18,870 --> 01:41:16,719
a province we do want safety we don't

2690
01:41:20,709 --> 01:41:18,880
want marauding gangs

2691
01:41:23,189 --> 01:41:20,719
driving through the streets

2692
01:41:24,390 --> 01:41:23,199
shooting people right so there is a role

2693
01:41:28,550 --> 01:41:24,400
for

2694
01:41:29,990 --> 01:41:28,560
that's why to me

2695
01:41:32,390 --> 01:41:30,000
the collective

2696
01:41:34,870 --> 01:41:32,400
slips through my fingers

2697
01:41:35,830 --> 01:41:34,880
what i focus on is from an individual

2698
01:41:38,310 --> 01:41:35,840
basis

2699
01:41:41,350 --> 01:41:38,320
it's so clear but the point that i guess

2700
01:41:43,189 --> 01:41:41,360
i was trying to make all along is that

2701
01:41:45,270 --> 01:41:43,199
my conclusion from all the things i've

2702
01:41:47,990 --> 01:41:45,280
learned is number one

2703
01:41:49,830 --> 01:41:48,000
we're all leading rich spiritual lives

2704
01:41:53,189 --> 01:41:49,840
yeah

2705
01:41:56,550 --> 01:41:53,199
that's like

2706
01:41:57,270 --> 01:41:56,560
controversial or counter intuitive to

2707
01:42:04,310 --> 01:41:57,280
the

2708
01:42:07,030 --> 01:42:04,320
michael shermer uh i don't know if it's

2709
01:42:10,310 --> 01:42:07,040
counter to what dean rayden thinks but

2710
01:42:11,990 --> 01:42:10,320
we are all leading rich spiritual lives

2711
01:42:12,790 --> 01:42:12,000
and when you fully process that it's

2712
01:42:16,149 --> 01:42:12,800
like

2713
01:42:18,149 --> 01:42:16,159
you know the guy who was on that horse

2714
01:42:19,430 --> 01:42:18,159
who trampled that

2715
01:42:21,109 --> 01:42:19,440
woman

2716
01:42:24,870 --> 01:42:21,119
he's leading

2717
01:42:26,390 --> 01:42:24,880
he is leading he is leading a rich

2718
01:42:27,669 --> 01:42:26,400
spiritual life

2719
01:42:31,590 --> 01:42:27,679
no different

2720
01:42:34,629 --> 01:42:31,600
life than that you and i are leading but

2721
01:42:37,270 --> 01:42:34,639
can you imagine the amount of pain

2722
01:42:39,189 --> 01:42:37,280
that would have caused you know it like

2723
01:42:40,830 --> 01:42:39,199
to come back from doing that to someone

2724
01:42:43,750 --> 01:42:40,840
else oh my

2725
01:42:45,030 --> 01:42:43,760
gosh like no i you know i'm not saying

2726
01:42:47,030 --> 01:42:45,040
that they're

2727
01:42:49,350 --> 01:42:47,040
that that they

2728
01:42:51,109 --> 01:42:49,360
don't have souls and exp and spiritual

2729
01:42:53,189 --> 01:42:51,119
lives either i'm just saying that it's

2730
01:42:54,229 --> 01:42:53,199
just it's so sad

2731
01:42:55,350 --> 01:42:54,239
that they

2732
01:42:57,430 --> 01:42:55,360
that you know they're going to have to

2733
01:42:58,709 --> 01:42:57,440
work to come back from that now

2734
01:43:00,390 --> 01:42:58,719
and and but what i was going to say

2735
01:43:03,189 --> 01:43:00,400
about the truckers is

2736
01:43:04,629 --> 01:43:03,199
they they keep coming back to ottawa now

2737
01:43:07,030 --> 01:43:04,639
like they keep having these little

2738
01:43:09,669 --> 01:43:07,040
secret reunions because they want to

2739
01:43:12,149 --> 01:43:09,679
experience that love again you know like

2740
01:43:13,990 --> 01:43:12,159
it's like has an end to year i i still

2741
01:43:16,709 --> 01:43:14,000
like going back to the scene in my car

2742
01:43:20,310 --> 01:43:16,719
accident like i'm drawn back there and

2743
01:43:22,149 --> 01:43:20,320
those truckers are drawn back here

2744
01:43:23,510 --> 01:43:22,159
you know

2745
01:43:24,790 --> 01:43:23,520
i get that

2746
01:43:28,149 --> 01:43:24,800
i just

2747
01:43:31,350 --> 01:43:28,159
that's where the the scientist in me

2748
01:43:34,310 --> 01:43:31,360
pulls up short and says i can have my no

2749
01:43:37,350 --> 01:43:34,320
i i i totally appreciate what you're

2750
01:43:39,750 --> 01:43:37,360
saying and i value my personal beliefs

2751
01:43:42,950 --> 01:43:39,760
about that but i'm very

2752
01:43:45,030 --> 01:43:42,960
i kind of draw a line in terms of uh

2753
01:43:47,669 --> 01:43:45,040
speculating about what that might might

2754
01:43:48,470 --> 01:43:47,679
mean for the collective what i will go

2755
01:43:52,390 --> 01:43:48,480
to

2756
01:43:54,709 --> 01:43:52,400
the cop lives a rich spiritual life

2757
01:43:57,910 --> 01:43:54,719
and if i just leave it there it opens up

2758
01:44:00,070 --> 01:43:57,920
a lot of possibilities for me to judge

2759
01:44:02,790 --> 01:44:00,080
in a different way i won't say not judge

2760
01:44:05,270 --> 01:44:02,800
but judge in a different way in terms of

2761
01:44:07,830 --> 01:44:05,280
what that experience might mean for him

2762
01:44:10,629 --> 01:44:07,840
in his spiritual life

2763
01:44:13,189 --> 01:44:10,639
but if we don't allow for the fact that

2764
01:44:15,910 --> 01:44:13,199
everyone is in that spiritual life then

2765
01:44:18,229 --> 01:44:15,920
we're not having that conversation

2766
01:44:19,350 --> 01:44:18,239
well yeah you know and i agree with you

2767
01:44:22,550 --> 01:44:19,360
and

2768
01:44:24,790 --> 01:44:22,560
will do like

2769
01:44:26,149 --> 01:44:24,800
you know what's more soul killing than

2770
01:44:27,350 --> 01:44:26,159
cancel culture

2771
01:44:29,830 --> 01:44:27,360
you know

2772
01:44:31,669 --> 01:44:29,840
like going on the internet and canceling

2773
01:44:34,229 --> 01:44:31,679
somebody who

2774
01:44:35,590 --> 01:44:34,239
for what i mean who knows what reasons

2775
01:44:38,149 --> 01:44:35,600
they're going to cancel somebody for i'm

2776
01:44:40,950 --> 01:44:38,159
probably canceled now i'm sure

2777
01:44:42,709 --> 01:44:40,960
but but you know um

2778
01:44:43,830 --> 01:44:42,719
like that experience of going on the

2779
01:44:46,390 --> 01:44:43,840
internet and

2780
01:44:47,510 --> 01:44:46,400
anonymously attacking somebody

2781
01:44:50,070 --> 01:44:47,520
um

2782
01:44:52,709 --> 01:44:50,080
just because you can like

2783
01:44:55,430 --> 01:44:52,719
like those people have souls too and at

2784
01:44:56,709 --> 01:44:55,440
soul experiences and

2785
01:44:58,470 --> 01:44:56,719
you know like you know that they're

2786
01:45:00,550 --> 01:44:58,480
probably in some way causing themselves

2787
01:45:02,390 --> 01:45:00,560
pain by doing that later on that they

2788
01:45:04,550 --> 01:45:02,400
don't realize yet

2789
01:45:06,229 --> 01:45:04,560
you know and yeah these are all like we

2790
01:45:10,229 --> 01:45:06,239
all do bad things

2791
01:45:12,790 --> 01:45:10,239
no saint

2792
01:45:15,430 --> 01:45:12,800
and you you have to kind of

2793
01:45:17,430 --> 01:45:15,440
that that's part of the journey too is

2794
01:45:19,990 --> 01:45:17,440
how do you come back from that

2795
01:45:22,310 --> 01:45:20,000
so how do

2796
01:45:23,830 --> 01:45:22,320
how do you go forward so you said how do

2797
01:45:26,310 --> 01:45:23,840
you come back from that

2798
01:45:28,229 --> 01:45:26,320
how do you go forward if you if you have

2799
01:45:31,910 --> 01:45:28,239
this expanded

2800
01:45:33,669 --> 01:45:31,920
understanding of things like you do

2801
01:45:36,070 --> 01:45:33,679
what does that mean in terms of how you

2802
01:45:37,910 --> 01:45:36,080
go forward and your life i mean what are

2803
01:45:39,830 --> 01:45:37,920
what is driving you

2804
01:45:41,910 --> 01:45:39,840
in terms of that

2805
01:45:44,229 --> 01:45:41,920
understanding that deeper spiritual

2806
01:45:46,310 --> 01:45:44,239
truth as in in that intersection with

2807
01:45:48,390 --> 01:45:46,320
that deeper spiritual truth and the

2808
01:45:51,189 --> 01:45:48,400
connections of being the

2809
01:45:53,590 --> 01:45:51,199
stranger things gal

2810
01:45:54,790 --> 01:45:53,600
well i guess the reason i said come back

2811
01:45:57,350 --> 01:45:54,800
is that

2812
01:45:58,790 --> 01:45:57,360
you know when you're in that nde you you

2813
01:46:01,189 --> 01:45:58,800
kind of

2814
01:46:03,669 --> 01:46:01,199
see who you are

2815
01:46:05,910 --> 01:46:03,679
and and when you're here it's like you

2816
01:46:07,430 --> 01:46:05,920
kind of move away from that

2817
01:46:09,109 --> 01:46:07,440
and and it's like

2818
01:46:10,629 --> 01:46:09,119
you know some things will take you away

2819
01:46:13,189 --> 01:46:10,639
from it and some things will bring you

2820
01:46:15,189 --> 01:46:13,199
back to it so that when i'm saying you

2821
01:46:15,990 --> 01:46:15,199
know how do we come back from it it's

2822
01:46:17,510 --> 01:46:16,000
like

2823
01:46:19,910 --> 01:46:17,520
you know you want to get back to

2824
01:46:22,070 --> 01:46:19,920
yourself like that that love at the core

2825
01:46:23,590 --> 01:46:22,080
of yourself that you're trying to find

2826
01:46:25,669 --> 01:46:23,600
yourself again

2827
01:46:26,870 --> 01:46:25,679
um

2828
01:46:28,870 --> 01:46:26,880
so really

2829
01:46:30,149 --> 01:46:28,880
i mean it's not

2830
01:46:32,229 --> 01:46:30,159
you know like when you say moving

2831
01:46:34,550 --> 01:46:32,239
forward you're like

2832
01:46:36,229 --> 01:46:34,560
going forward in time but the gain is an

2833
01:46:39,109 --> 01:46:36,239
end to year you'd kind of have to say

2834
01:46:44,149 --> 01:46:39,119
well yeah time is kind of a

2835
01:46:50,229 --> 01:46:44,950
time

2836
01:46:52,870 --> 01:46:51,189
so

2837
01:46:54,709 --> 01:46:52,880
are we gonna are we gonna get that book

2838
01:47:00,070 --> 01:46:54,719
published or not

2839
01:47:04,709 --> 01:47:02,310
well you've been you've been so

2840
01:47:06,310 --> 01:47:04,719
awesome and super and i so appreciate

2841
01:47:08,310 --> 01:47:06,320
you know

2842
01:47:10,149 --> 01:47:08,320
all the conversations i've had with you

2843
01:47:11,350 --> 01:47:10,159
and all the email exchanges i've had

2844
01:47:13,590 --> 01:47:11,360
with you

2845
01:47:15,830 --> 01:47:13,600
and again i don't know if uh you know

2846
01:47:16,870 --> 01:47:15,840
how people will process some of this

2847
01:47:19,669 --> 01:47:16,880
stuff and

2848
01:47:20,470 --> 01:47:19,679
with your permission i'll edit it into

2849
01:47:22,540 --> 01:47:20,480
uh

2850
01:47:26,070 --> 01:47:22,550
yeah i i don't envy your editing

2851
01:47:29,669 --> 01:47:27,510
thanks again to shirley black for

2852
01:47:32,310 --> 01:47:29,679
joining me today on skeptica the one

2853
01:47:34,629 --> 01:47:32,320
question i t up from this interview

2854
01:47:36,709 --> 01:47:34,639
is the so what question

2855
01:47:38,470 --> 01:47:36,719
so you didn't know psychokinesis was

2856
01:47:39,990 --> 01:47:38,480
real but now you do

2857
01:47:42,790 --> 01:47:40,000
you weren't convinced that near-death

2858
01:47:44,390 --> 01:47:42,800
experiences were really all that but

2859
01:47:46,950 --> 01:47:44,400
now you are

2860
01:47:49,910 --> 01:47:46,960
so what let's say you're a military

2861
01:47:52,790 --> 01:47:49,920
intelligence guy and you're tasked with

2862
01:47:55,109 --> 01:47:52,800
defending my life liberty

2863
01:47:58,070 --> 01:47:55,119
and pursuit of happiness

2864
01:47:59,990 --> 01:47:58,080
well i i kind of do want you to do that

2865
01:48:03,189 --> 01:48:00,000
so let's say you come to me and you say

2866
01:48:05,270 --> 01:48:03,199
hey i need a little leeway with this mk

2867
01:48:07,109 --> 01:48:05,280
ultra stuff if i'm really gonna do my

2868
01:48:08,790 --> 01:48:07,119
job

2869
01:48:10,790 --> 01:48:08,800
what do i say

2870
01:48:12,470 --> 01:48:10,800
am i okay with that

2871
01:48:15,109 --> 01:48:12,480
are you okay with that

2872
01:48:16,629 --> 01:48:15,119
let me know let me hear your thoughts

2873
01:48:19,910 --> 01:48:16,639
lots more to come

2874
01:48:21,030 --> 01:48:19,920
stay with me until next time

2875
01:48:23,430 --> 01:48:21,040
take care

2876
01:48:36,990 --> 01:48:23,440
and bye for now